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#1 Posted : 04 July 2003 09:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wolfenden A question was posed to me yesterday concerning the use of powder fire extinguishers, in relation to the requirements of DSEA. Is there a risk of a dust explosion when attempting to extinguish a fire with a powder extinguisher? Would any risk be increased by using the extinguisher where incoming electrical mains transformers are, as our transformers are housed in seperate buildings that only have one wall that is completely open to atmosphere? (the transformers are 11Kv incoming and oil emmersed) The fire safety contractor who supplies the extinguishers has not had this posed to them before and has gone to seek information.
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#2 Posted : 04 July 2003 09:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Dave Dust explosions can only occur when there is a high enough airborne concentration of a combustible dust. The powder in fire extinguishers is non-combustible and so could not cause such a problem. Paul
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#3 Posted : 04 July 2003 10:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Geoff Burt Powder extinguishers causing an explosion??? Come on, think about it - what is the point of a powder fire extinguisher! Geoff
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#4 Posted : 04 July 2003 10:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Shane Johnston It's not April the 1st is it ? Shane.
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#5 Posted : 04 July 2003 14:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gavin Gibson Is this the case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing or should we consider mandating breathing apparatus before using carbon dioxide extinguishers?
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#6 Posted : 04 July 2003 23:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor Powder can be blown all over the place other than where you want it when open to the atmosphere. CO2 and inert gas extinguishant will penetrate electical apparatus better than powder if that's where the fire is.
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#7 Posted : 07 July 2003 15:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jane Blunt You can be certain that if a powder can be blown around by the wind, then so can the gas from a CO2 extinguisher. The distinction is that you can easily see what is happening with the powder. We had a Distribution Board go up in smoke one day - 3-phase, 400A per phase. Fortunately the doors to the Board were open, so that the equipment could be made dead quickly, and a powder extinguisher did an excellent job of putting out the fire. Jane
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#8 Posted : 08 July 2003 00:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Cook Carbon Dioxide or other inert gas portable extinguishers are generally ineffective outdoors at a safe opperating distance because the agent is too easily dispersed by wind etc. Dry Powder extinguishers are affected by environmental conditions but not to the same extent. The ammount of carbon dioxide required to extinguish a a class B fire (flammable liquids, such as your transformer oil) would also be roughly double that of the ammount of powder as the fire rating (the number on the extinguisher eg.34b)of powder is much higher. It is also worth bearing in mind that a number of extinguisher / extinguishing agent manufacturers will only state that their product is safe for use on live electrical equipment upto 1000 volts and you did mention that you were dealing with 11kv. Paul
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#9 Posted : 08 July 2003 09:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor No two fires will be identical and, obviously, you will need to have the correct extinguisher sited so as to be available when and where needed. We were always taught that, whilst dry powder can be used on electrical fires, the problem is that it will not effectively penetrate through tortuous routes into electrical equipment whereas CO2 delivered closely and under pressure will do so. This is why we see so many of them sited adjacent to electrical intake rooms, electrical plant, etc. When it comes to fires in the open air, the use of either can be difficult in windy or wet conditions or in untrained hands and I have certainly witnessed some comical and less than effective use of dry powder. I believe that the question here relates to an area open on one side to the elements. Can we agree that an informed risk assessment is called for taking into account all the circumstances and that this should determine the best extinguishant and means of delivery for the particular need?
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#10 Posted : 08 July 2003 11:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Geoff Burt A couple of good points have been raised - but from the original question, hopefully we all agree a powder extinguisher will not cause an explosion! Usually, in my experience, the recommended extinguisher for plant rooms is powder and is used internally. As has been said, external use can result in a Laurel & Hardy scenario. I would go along with the CO2 at close range but for one thing - just how close do you want to get to the electrical equipment. If you have ever seen an oil filled transformer go up, you wouldn't consider it. I see extinguishers as being handy for the much quoted bin fire (less likely in these no smoking days) or similar, but for the rest just get out. Out of interest a 'local' Local Authority Safety Officer recommended powder extinguishers for all the Council Offices and at great expense they changed from water and CO2. Come the change of Safety Officer they went to great expense to change back again! Geoff
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