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#1 Posted : 19 July 2003 17:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Vincent Fagan
Hi,

Does anybody know how long does the Hiv virus last outside the human body?

Is HIV or other diseases contractable through drinking water that may have been contaminated? Or what constitutes contamination?
e.g. if you drink water that contain HIV(if that is possible...)

Dont limit this to just HIV tho.
This might be one for 'well clued-in' Medics, but maybe someone has come across a scenario that might enlighten me??
Thanks
Vicent
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#2 Posted : 20 July 2003 15:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Its all about the bacterial / viral characteristics and the bacterial loading required to contract any infection, allied with the state of the immune system to fight infection.

For you Env Man People recognise Source-pathway- receptor, well in Communicable disease control it's Source-Route-Target and for any of you saddos yes I remember this from my time with the Army.
Source - Can be anything
Route - Inhalation, injestion, injection, contact etc
Target - healthy but susecptible man

The idea being that if You can eradicate the SOURCE, Control the ROUTE and/or protect the TARGET then you will not contract or communicate a communiicable disease.

Sorry V bit of the thread but dont know is the answer but would probably guess Not!
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#3 Posted : 20 July 2003 17:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Vincent,


CCDC state that HIV is spread by sexual contact with an infected person, by sharing needles and/or syringes (primarily for drug injection) with someone who is infected, or, less commonly (and now very rarely in countries where blood is screened for HIV antibodies), through transfusions of infected blood or blood clotting factors. Babies born to HIV-infected women may become infected before or during birth or through breast-feeding after birth.

In the health care setting, workers have been infected with HIV after being stuck with needles containing HIV-infected blood or, less frequently, after infected blood gets into a worker’s open cut or a mucous membrane (for example, the eyes or inside of the nose). There has been only one instance of patients being infected by a health care worker in the United States; this involved HIV transmission from one infected dentist to six patients. Investigations have been completed involving more than 22,000 patients of 63 HIV-infected physicians, surgeons, and dentists, and no other cases of this type of transmission have been identified in the United States.

Some people fear that HIV might be transmitted in other ways; however, no scientific evidence to support any of these fears has been found. If HIV were being transmitted through other routes (such as through air, water, or insects), the pattern of reported AIDS cases would be much different from what has been observed. For example, if mosquitoes could transmit HIV infection, many more young children and preadolescents would have been diagnosed with AIDS.

All reported cases suggesting new or potentially unknown routes of transmission are thoroughly investigated by state and local health departments with the assistance, guidance, and laboratory support from CDC. No additional routes of transmission have been recorded, despite a national sentinel system designed to detect just such an occurrence.

The following paragraphs specifically address some of the common misperceptions about HIV transmission.

Scientists and medical authorities agree that HIV does not survive well in the environment, making the possibility of environmental transmission remote. HIV is found in varying concentrations or amounts in blood, semen, vaginal fluid, breast milk, saliva, and tears. To obtain data on the survival of HIV, laboratory studies have required the use of artificially high concentrations of laboratory-grown virus. Although these unnatural concentrations of HIV can be kept alive for days or even weeks under precisely controlled and limited laboratory conditions, CDC studies have shown that drying of even these high concentrations of HIV reduces the amount of infectious virus by 90 to 99 percent within several hours. Since the HIV concentrations used in laboratory studies are much higher than those actually found in blood or other specimens, drying of HIV-infected human blood or other body fluids reduces the theoretical risk of environmental transmission to that which has been observed--essentially zero. Incorrect interpretation of conclusions drawn from laboratory studies have unnecessarily alarmed some people.

Results from laboratory studies should not be used to assess specific personal risk of infection because (1) the amount of virus studied is not found in human specimens or elsewhere in nature, and (2) no one has been identified as infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface. Additionally, HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions, therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

Regards Adrian Watson
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#4 Posted : 21 July 2003 12:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Hilary Charlton
Agree with Adrian on the HIV issue - some form of direct blood or bodily fluid (not saliva) tranmission must take place for this to be transmitted.

However, think one of the forms of Leprosy can be transmitted through drinking water and has quite a long life outside of the body - 24-48 hours or so. Obviously this is not very relevant in the UK but it is rife in other countries of the world.

Hilary
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#5 Posted : 22 July 2003 08:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Vincent Fagan
Thanks everybody for your responses. You have confirmed more or less my thoughts, and given me substance for further thought.

BUT just as a clarification...1)there has to be direct contact between the source of infection e.g. an infected needle, and the target or individual., and 2)an enclosed water system wouldnt or couldnt act as a medium(if it somehow came into contact with infected needles)?

I was also referring to any kind of diseases that might be associated with infected needles e.g.hepatitis etc, and how if at all they might last in drinking water.

hope someone is still paying attention to this thread...
Thanks
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#6 Posted : 22 July 2003 10:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Diane Thomason
Vincent,

The blood-borne virusus (BBV) HIV and Hepatitis B and C are NOT considered to be transmitted via water. I don't know how long HIV for example would actually remain viable in drinking water, but they are not robust in the environment and only remain viable for a long time when in someone's body, or in blood/semen etc.

As far as we currently know, yes the person does have to be directly jabbed with the article that contains infected blood for there to be a risk of infection, or to have blood etc. splashed into an open wound. Even then, the risk of contracting HIV from a needlestick injury with a needle containing infected blood is very low (higher for Hep B.)

My advice to you is that water can be regarded as low risk, even if there is a risk if contamination with dirty needles. The water would dilute the blood down to a very low level, and the virus would in time lose its viability anyway. For there to be a real risk of infection you do need to get a good dollop of virus.

Please fell free to email me if you want to discuss this. The "official" guidance is in the Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens document "Protection against blood-borne infections in the workplace: HIV and hepatitis", ISBN 0113219539.

Regards
Diane Thomason
Biological & Chemical Safety Officer
University of Leicester.
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#7 Posted : 22 July 2003 18:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Vincent,

Water is one of the primary routes of infection for communicable diseases. It is described as enteric, gastro-intestinal or the faecal oral route of infection.

Virtually all groups of microorganisms have species that can cause infection via this route. Viruses include polio, hepatitis; Bacteria include typhoid, paratyphoid A & B, and dysentery; Helminths (worms), include schistosomiasis; there are also protozoa including Gardia lambia and amoeba.

The survival of microorganisms in water depends upon the pH, temperature, salinity, organic matter within the water and amount of sunlight. Some organisms e.g. poliovirus has been known to survive months and can survive in seawater.

Many Regards Adrian Watson
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#8 Posted : 24 July 2003 15:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Diane Thomason
The info given by Adrian is cound, but I repeat, the blood-borne viruses HIV and HepB/C are not considered to be transmitted by water.
Diane
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