Posted By Tracey Thompson Jerry (sorry about the long one!)but.... the one thing that springs to mind for me with this is CCA(Chromated Copper Arsenate) which is commonly used as wood preservative and it would be worth checking on for railway sleepers too.I have pasted some information below which we have sent out to our schools to inform them of the concerns with wooden play equipment in general: CCA is commonly used to treat timbers to preserve them from weather and insect depredation. It's use is sometimes referred to as "tanalising". Since 2001 there has been increasing pressure to ban the use of CCA, as the arsenic in the compound can leach out in rain or damp and after the use of some "deck brightening" products.Exposure to the arsenic has been linked to bladder and lung cancer, although most studies indicate that the risk is extremely low (one estimate is that the increased cancer risk ranges from 2 in a million to 100 in a million). The effect is not immediate and any illness can take decades to develop. It is probable that in June 2004, a European directive will prohibit the use of CCA for certain wood products. These products include decking and other equipment where there is potential for skin contact. You may already have noticed that some DIY chains are advertising their wood as being “safely treated”, although this practice is not being followed by all the major DIY firms. Labelling usually indicates whether or not CCA has been used in wood preparation. Exposure to the arsenic is through hand-to-mouth contact. There is no risk of arsenic poisoning from exposure to CCA. I would stress that the risk of a child developing an illness from exposure to CCA is very low and that there is no cause for alarm. It is unlikely that playground equipment from reputable suppliers has been treated with CCA and it is thought that once treated wood has been in the environment for any length of time the compound is unlikely to be hazardous. However, if you are concerned about possible exposure to CCA there are some simple steps that can be taken to reduce the level of risk even further: · Check with manufacturers whether equipment has been treated with CCA · Ensure that children wash their hands with soap and water after using wooden play equipment that may have been treated with CCA · Discourage children from eating at wooden tables that may have been treated with CCA · If you are planning to install or build wooden equipment for your playgrounds, check with the manufacturers that CCA has not been used in its preparation. Some of the large DIY stores mark their wood as being “safely treated” but check labels to ensure that it is CCA free. · Applying certain penetrating coatings such as oil-based, semi-transparent stains on a regular basis (once a year or every other year depending upon wear and weathering) may reduce the amount of arsenic that comes out of the wood, although this is based on limited evidence. Please be reassured once again that the risk of illness is low and that most playground equipment will not be treated with CCA. If you have any queries about equipment at your school, please contact the manufacturers in the first instance. Hope this helps! Tracey

Posted By Sean Fraser Paul, As any reader of Private Eye can confirm, the carriages with direct dump (pardon the pun) systems were due to be phased out by now but as is consistent with the state of our "modern" railway system it is lagging behind and so they are still in operation, along with the slam-door carriages that were meant to have gone by now. Without getting into the politics of the situation, there's a serious side to this. This issue is also being brought up by railway maintenance workers as a source of concern, especially when one considers that human waste is a significant hazard in untreated form. Not just the nasties either - general ill health can result from frequent exposure to untreated waste and although not always life threatening, it can be very unpleasant in terms of symptoms. Add this to the arsenic, then . . . However, while househunting we visited a house where the owner was proudly displaying a huge lounge table that had been converted from an original railway sleeper. The current condition of the person who created it is unknown!

Posted By Geoff Burt Just some observations as I have no knowledge of what sleepers were treated with but ... Firstly, have they been treated with creosote? We have some in the garden and they have tar spots which ooze out when it is hot, so could it have been some other oil but non-creosote treatment? Secondly, going by the way creosote evaporates and washes off fences within 3 or 4 years, and wood sleepers are many years older than that, then would sleepers still pose a problem even if they had been treated with creosote. And finally! to ponder on. Is it reasonable to think that sleepers which may have been contaminated with faeces years ago, still carry a significant risk? Bear in mind that they have been subjected to rain, sun, frost, snow and most importantly time. And if they do carry a risk then what risk rating would it be? Well not quite finally - and is there any recorded history of people suffering from disease or from contact with creosote from old sleepers (apart from manual handling? Is there any research that shows the presence of harmful bacteria? Geoff

Posted By Jack In this case there is no point pontificating about what the sleepers contain (they are impregnated with creosote which also contains naphthalene) or whether it had been 'neutralised' or whatever. It's supply for the purpose Jerry is asking about is BANNED! The Creosote (Prohibition on Use and Marketing) Regulations 2003 include the following: 6. Treated wood in respect of which regulation 4(2) or regulation 7 applies may not be used - (a) inside any building; (b) in toys; (c) in playgrounds; (d) in parks, gardens and outdoor recreational and leisure facilities where there is a risk of frequent skin contact; (e) in the manufacture of garden furniture (such as picnic tables); or (f) for the manufacture and use and any retreatment of - (i) containers intended for growing purposes; (ii) packaging which may come into contact with raw materials, intermediate or finished products intended for human or animal consumption; or (iii) any other materials which may contaminate the products mentioned in this sub-paragraph

Posted By Paul Leadbetter Sorry, Jack I have just read The Creosote (Prohibition on Use and Marketing)(No. 2) Regulations 2003 which clarifies the position. Even secondhand, treated wood cannot be used for the purposes which you quoted. Paul

Posted By Geoff Burt Whoops, sorry Jack (I should have known better!)

Posted By Jerry Sanderson Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.I didn't think this would cause so much discussion.As always the responses are helpful and informative.I will now attempt to collate them into some guidance to the school concerned.

Posted By Jack I think it's my turn to apologise now. I was probably too dogmatic. The website below ( a company which sells the things) has some quite useful background: http://www.railwaysleepe...sleeper%20treatments.htm My initial response should have made it clear it only applied to creosote treated sleepers (obviously!). The website is useful on types etc. However, as these are intended for use in a school my advice would still be the same. The above website says: Clearly creosote treated sleepers should now not be sold to schools, play areas and public places, where there might be 'frequent skin contact with creosote' but at the same time it is green light as usual for professional and industrial uses, which include: agricultural, railway, forestry, fencing, harbours and waterways and electric power transmission and telecommunications - -

Posted By Robert K Lewis I think there is an industry growing here which is calling NEW baulks of timber Railway Sleepers. As far as I know the rail industry has moved to concrete sleepers. There is therefore a degree of re-nomenclature in operation. The timber referred to a sleepers are simply sleeper sized not the actual. The comments all made for treatment will then apply and restrictions need to be followed. Bob

Posted By Jerry Sanderson Geoff, In answer to your query I am not certain if the sleepers they intend to use are treated with creosote or not.In my original ignorance I assumed they probably were but thanks to the information provided by colleagues on here it seems I need some further information from the supplier before giving final advice.As they say every day's a school day.