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Posted By Peter Lee
Before I begin this is not a which is the better qualification argument and it is not intended to offend anyone.
What I would like to know, preferably from the NVQ4 people, is that as most of the jobs in SHP ask for NEBOSH Diploma would people with NVQ 4 apply for these positions and how would they give reasoned argument to the employer. I suspect most employers who advertise do not understand the relation between the two qualifications and thus ask for NEBOSH.
I have NEBOSH Dip1 and am now considering my options, preferably I would like to do NVQ4 due to family / work commitments but feel that this may put me at a disadvantage in the job market.
Would I be right in saying NVQ4 is more suited to those in H&S employment not looking to move on but wanting MIOSH.
Please no arguments, as I said its not a which is the better qualification but merely seeking informed opinions before I part with best part of £2000.
Kind Regards
Peter.
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Posted By Andrew Rushton
Peter,
The criteria for being allowed on to an NVQ4 is that you should be working in an environment with Complex risks. If an assessor does not think you you have the correct exposure, you will not be allowed on the course.
As for the benefits. If you want to hands on manage health & safety take the NVQ. If you want to sit in an ivory tower and spout legislation do the diploma.
The NVQ is based on applying as you learn. As I am sure you are aware, the diploma is more academic than practical.
I was in the same position as you a while ago after completing the NEBOSH certificate. As I was already managing health & safety in a multiple complex risk environment, I chose the NVQ route.
As for job opportunities, I have no problems getting interviews for consultancy or management roles. Just problems finding a significantly better salary than the one I've got.
Hope this helps,
Andy
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Posted By Tracey Docking
I went through the same dilemma as you Peter. I hate doing assignments, have busy family life etc and was told by a RSP that I was doing all the practical stuff for NVQ4 in my job anyway so that may be more suitable option for me. I then found I was unable to find any Company who runs this course in the South East so i've signed to do Part II and start next week - eeeek!!! Agree that some still view that NVQs are less worthy ("no value qualification") but having done NVQ3 in T&D I totally disagree as I learnt a lot more through doing.
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Posted By gaz
Peter
I was in a similar postion as yourself i.e. whether to take the NEBOSH Diploma or NVQ route. I am very aware that a lot of employers (and fellow Safety Practioners) view the NEBOSH Diploma as a higher level of qualification than the NVQ.
I personaly chose the NVQ Level 4 for the following reasons. Cost benefits, time, examination "Phobia" (i have a intense loathing of any sort of exam), benefits to my employer (i.e. implementing policys and procedurers to meet the units required), ability to join as a memeber of IOSH, method of testing i.e. through your portfolio and informal questioning by your assessor.
I done my reasrch for both the NEBOSH Diploma Part 2 and the NVQ Level 4 and it is intresting to learn that the domain knoweledge required for both is exactly the SAME. As someone else rightly states someone who passes the Diploma is more likely to quote chapter and verse the regulatry components to any H&S problem encountered in the workplace, does that make them a better safety practioner than someone who (by completing a porfolio)has proved that they have already encountered the problem and done something about it?
Like you stated at the start of the thread it is not about which is the better qualification debate. The most important considerastion is NVQ is better for me but if the NEBOSH Diploma is better for you (or anyone else) than go that way.
Whatever way you go then good luck.
Gaz
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Posted By Nick Higginson
Peter
Either qualification will give you a sound base with which to move forward in a H&S career.
The talk of NVQ being for "hands-on" people and NEBOSH being for "people in ivory towers who can spout legislation" is ill-informed nonsense.
I took the Diploma route purely because of the fact the the majority of employers ask for it. Also, the difficulty of the course and the low pass-rate made it something of a challenge.
The Diploma has given me an excellent knowledge base, but I must stress that this is only when coupled with experience if doing the job. In fact, there have been times when I have been surprised at the fundamental lack of knowledge of some colleagues who have been through an NVQ or the NTU Diploma, but that's just my personal experience.
Contrary to popular belief, only one fifth of the NEBOSH course is legislation (other areas are Management of Risk, Workplace, Work Equipment and Agents).
Looking to the future, I have just started an MSc for holders of the NEBOSH Diploma. Loughborough University accept the course as full prior learning for a PG Diploma, so I only have to undertake two projects to achieve the MSc. This is something you may want to think about. As far as I know, no universities accept NVQ4 as prior learning for an MSc in this way.
Like you, I paid for the course myself. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
Kind regards
Nick
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Posted By Gavin Gibson
Peter
Seperate from the love / hate spat of NVQ V Diploma is the key issue, what is best for you?
Do you prefer block leave courses and exams, as opposed to assessed course work. Can you manage your work commitments and take time out?
I have recently put two of my staff through to MIOSH status, 1 via NVQ and 1 via the diploma route.
Most adverts quote a Diploma because that is all that the HR person has read in other adverts - a self-purpetuating issue. As long as you obtain your MIOSH status, nobody will really care how you got there.
Regards
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Posted By Martin
Just a thought, but this self perpetuating trend within the SHP advertisements to state NEBOSH diploma as a minimum, is I think quite unhealthy in our professional magazine. I would accept that IOSH cannot dictate to employers what qualifications they should request, but if it is just a lack of knowledge on the employers part, maybe IOSH should tackle it a bit further.
I also did the Loughborough University Diploma/MSc course to achieve MIOSH, and so tend to ignore the 'NEBOSH' word when looking at ads - but this still sends the wrong message to people looking to take up more training (as evidenced by all thse posts showing how unsure people are on the validity of the various options).
Maybe the box section 'An employers' guide to IOSH membership' (pg93) could be extended to list the various qualification routes which are classed by IOSH as equivalent to the NEBOSH qual., including the NVQ levels.
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Posted By Hilary Charlton
I think one of the other respondees made a very good case - you have to be working in an environment in which there are complex risks in order to be able to get on the NVQ4 in the first place - it's not an option that is open to everyone. I took the NVQ4 because of family and work commitments, cost, a basic fear of examinations and because I work in mechanical engineering which is considered high risk and complex so I was able to.
That is not to say there is anything wrong with the Diploma, there is nothing wrong with either method of achieving MIOSH and although a lot of adverts ask for the NEBOSH Diploma, an awful lot of them now ask for "or equivalent" as well.
At the end of the day, only you know what will suit you. They are both worthwhile qualifications, each has its own particular strengths and weaknesses and these should be weighed up against your personal circumstances to see which will suit you best.
Hilary
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Well put Hilary couldn't agree more, its the MIOSH which is the important factor and how you get there is personal choice.
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Posted By Peter Lee
Thank you all for your comments pretty much as expected.
I know its horses for courses, I passed NEBOSH Diploma Part 1 first time by some miracle, I hate exams and I struggle with assignments, they take me a lot longer than the suggested five hours but having said that I got an A, two B's and two C's for the five.
I think a logical progression would be NEBOSH Diploma Part 2 as I do not work in a high risk environment which is required for NVQ4.
Once again thanks to you all, I think the crux of the matter is that its MIOSH I need but NEBOSH is the motre recognised method.
Kind Regards
Peter.
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Posted By Nick Higginson
Peter
Drop me a line direct if you are considering Dip 2 via Distance Learning.
Kind regards
Nick
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Posted By Jonny
I have seen job adverts in SHP asking for MIOSH by examination....does that apply to NVQ or Diploma 2 or to both methods of obtaining MIOSH.
No use obtaining MIOSH by the wrong route, surely you are limiting your job opportunities.
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Posted By Jack
In response to Jonny's point I suspect the adverts saying 'MIOSH by examination' were trying to exclude those who managed to obtain membership without any qualification (exam or NVQ). I would have thought most would have retired by now or will soon! The advert probably reflects an organisation which is not keeping up!
I agree with Hilary and Dave. Both are valid routes.
But don't forget that as a measure of competence MIOSH needs RSP on the end.
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Posted By Nick Higginson
I don't think it is accurate to say that anyone who doesn't have RSP is not competent.
What about people who have achieved MIOSH, are undertaking CPD, but do not have the requisite 3 years post-qualification experience to get RSP?
Nick
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Posted By Jack
>I don't think it is accurate to say that anyone who doesn't have RSP is not competent.
I don't think that's quite what I wrote. If it is, it's not quite what I meant.
>What about people who have achieved MIOSH, are undertaking CPD, but do not have the requisite 3 years post-qualification experience to get RSP?
I guess they are not quite as competent as when they've got some experience under their belt.
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Posted By Nick Higginson
Jack
You didn't write it, but certainly implied it.
Theoretically they could have 30 years experience, yet only 2 years of post qualification experience. Competent or not?
Regards
Nick
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Posted By Peter Lee
Nick,
Competence according to the MHASAW Regs is training, experience or knowledge and other qualities (love to know what other qaulities are).
I am still waiting for you to email me regarding the Dip2 Distance learning option.
Regards.
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