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Posted By Nicki
First I am not a H&S pro' but have a good understanding of which Regs' affect the situation detailed.
OK, Work on the committee of a very small village hall. We have complied, to the best of our knowledge, with all H&S Regs etc. We try our best but are all unpaid volunteers.
We have just had an incident where we hired our hall for a wedding. The hirer booked there own "mobile disco" for the evening.
During the event there was a fire caused by the "mobile disco" equipment. No major injury but some damage to the hall and two "personnel injury" claims. The personnel injury claims are through one of those well known claim companies.
Our insurance company have refused our claim on the grounds that we should have checked/inspected the "mobile disco" equipment ourselves and the personnel injury claimsd are outside the scope of our insurance.
Any comments or advice. Current advise is close the village hall!!
Regards
Nicki
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Posted By Steve Sedgwick
Nicki
I would certainly see a solicitor on this, it will not cost for a consultation / assessment of your case.
The disco should have had insurance to cover such issues and you should have checked this. I understand, we only think about this afterwards.
It does appear that your insurance are very un helpful in this, you need to obviously read through your policy and decide later if you are going to change companies.
At the end of the day it looks as though you will be sued and that you will have to recover the damages from the disco.
Good luck
Steve
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Posted By Neil Pearson
I don't get it. How can the injury claims be outside the scope of your insurance? What covers did you take out exactly? Public & employers' liability?
As Steve says, you should also follow up on whether the supplier of the disco equipment can be sued. There are strict laws concerning safety of equipment and how it should be inspected/maintained etc.
It is hard to take, but people acting voluntarily are just as much employers and employees under H&S law as anyone else. The fact that you don't receive a salary has nothing to do with it strictly.
But don't worry too much, it's quite possible that the insurer is just being awkward.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
I have some experience with these personal injury claims from the well known Personal Injury Companies.
My concern is that you are being used as a soft target for these claims rather than the mobile disco organisation. I suspect that they are not insured and I cannot see how you have a direct duty of care to the wedding party as the arrangements for this disco was organised by them.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
If the mobile disco people were paid, they were at work and in breach of H&S law. If the hiring of the hall was complete, the organisers of the event were in control of the premises. Claims should be directed to those considered to be in breach of duty. Your defence would appear to be that you did not have any duty to those who suffered loss in this matter. This underlines the value of having good hire/letting agreements. [Presumably you do have fire and public liability insurance?]
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Posted By Neil Pearson
Just to add to what Ken said above - I'm not sure it matters whether the disco provider was paid or not - that's not necessary for the operation to be called "work".
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Posted By irene bezant
Does your hall have a Public Entertainment Licence? If yes, you will have had a visit from your local councils licencing department. They in turn should have almost certainly have required you to have fitted a 30 milliamp residual current device (RCD), which all entertainment equipment should run through, to ensure if there are any earth leakage faults, the system will cut the power off, before major shock or fire occurrs.
If you hace a liciece and have not recieved this advice, there would be a claim route I think, for "failure to inform" as part of a formal licencing.
Just a thought............
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Posted By Jay Joshi
This is a sorry state of affairs when individuals are encouraged to claim compensation for trivial matters--although the fire could have serious consequences. I cannot see how you are at fault or liable when apparently, it was the electric overload that caused the fire. Does the hire of the hall invlove any paperwork such as who is responsible for what? I would guess not as I have personally hired at very nominal rates large village hall for a birthday party without any paperwork--it is purely on "trust"--a rarity in this day and
age!! It would be a pity if you would stop hiring it out, but you need to consider safety aspects and prepare a hire "contract" with relevant responsibilities etc clarified.
Is there any recent inspection report of the electrical installation in the hall?? If yes, that should be a good defence. As the fire was caused by the disco equipment, it is the party that supplied/operated that equipment that is primarily responsible, including either checking out the rating of the halls electrical system or even asking about it.
Lastly, these organisations that encourage others to make petty compensation claims are doing a grat dis-service to the society overall as the result of this is often stopping fun/leisure activities or use of facilities.
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Posted By irene bezant
Let's not forget that this is a village hall. The occurance has happened. The hall committee will know that in hindsight there are several robust but simple systems they need to have in place to safeguard the hall and it's users from harm, in future.
The immediate problem is that they are on the end of a potentially crippling set of claims that could potentially have a severe effect on the volunteers and the future of the facility for the community. We have been asked to give practical advice on how to minimise the damage, after the event and all suggestions will I am sure be made in the spirit of helping a small village hall survive this event. If there is a chance that others may be partly responsible for any failings, then give the advice generously.
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Posted By Steve Sedgwick
I thought there had been lots of good advice given.
Ultimately it is a legal matter that will be dealt with by soilicitors.
Talk to a solicitor who deals with these matters pronto.
Steve
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Posted By Ken Taylor
You are right about payment not being a test for whether work is taking place, Neil and I didn't want to convey that message. From the information supplied by Nicki, I didn't know whether this was someone who does this 'as a living' or just a wedding guest or friend of the event organiser doing a 'favour' - and so I 'threw in' a simple way of considering whether work-related legislation applied in this particular case.
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Posted By Nicki
First I would like to thank every one for their advise.
Following a few phone calls our insurance has agreed to the repairs of the village hall
and will take up the two claims from the "Personnal Accident" company.
Unfortunately, we are likely to see a very large rise in our insurance costs which may close the hall anyhow.
We had full public liability insurance which was completely reviewed a few years ago. All of our electrical test certificates are current and are re-done every year which again is another high cost to the hall. Risk assessments are also all current and reviewed as required.
The only point we fell down on was the bringing of equipment into the hall by hirers. The disco in question was a "full time" outfit but they have been unable to provide any test certs' i.e PAT testing, for their equipment which puts them on the spot.
Fire was started in power amplifier which had been modified to run off the mains (240v) instead of 12v.
We are going to amend the hirers agreement to cover this type of situation if we can keep the hall going.
So, once again, thank you for your assistance and a word of caution to any other small village halls that you may know.
Regards
Nicki
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Nicki, your contracts with those hiring your hall need to include a form of indemnity for loss and damage arising from the use and evidence of insurance cover for this - (figures of £2m and £5m seem to be asked for these days).
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Posted By Dave Daniel
Niki - As a Safety Consultant and Vintage Car owner I should caution you about your liability.
Members of Clubs or organisations such as yours bear an absolute accountability for its liabilities. If you find yourself uninsured and with a claim to pay the Bailiffs have a right to approach your members and recover total costs directly. This is not done on a shared basis. They recover as much as they can from the first one they find, and when he's bankrupt then move to the next.
For this reason many clubs, such as my car club, now operate as a company limited by guarantee. This restricts laibility on members to a modest affordable maximum eg £1.
You would be well advised to consider such a move. I believe a grievance with a club member of one organisation ended with the club premises being siezed, along wih the assests of a number of other members.
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Posted By wasfy william
I am work in semiramis intercontinental hotel as a OHS coordination from 1988.
please i can ask you to help me to take advanced training in health and safety at work spicialy in hotels ( high ris building)
wasfy
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By wasfy william
I am work in semiramis intercontinental hotel as a OHS coordination from 1988.
please i can ask you to help me to take advanced training in health and safety at work spicialy in hotels ( high ris building)
wasfy
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