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#1 Posted : 28 October 2003 18:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian stevenson
What if any liability does a first aid trained member of staff. Some are asking can they be sued for any error of judgment.Would any liability be with the employer and what if the person used their skills outside work and was accused of an error that may have resulted in further harm to the injured person.

Regards
Ian
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#2 Posted : 28 October 2003 21:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Sedgwick
Ian
There are many threads on this discussion forum that have thrashed this in the past. Try a search, you will be surprised just how many.

At work the employer is responsible for the acts or omissions of his employees (first aider is an employee)

Out side work if you are "negligent" then you could be sued eg if someone had a small spell in his finger and you removed by cutting a hole in someone’s hand with a craft knife then you are negligent.

I would also say that if you walked away from a serious situation without assisting then you would be just as negligent because of your failure to act.

I am sure there are those that will advise you to buy some insurance and there are plenty of insurance companies willing to take your money.

Don,t worry, follow your training

regards

Steve
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#3 Posted : 29 October 2003 07:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Hilary Charlton
Inside work the first aider is covered by employers liability insurance. If they are dealing with a member of the public but are at work at the time then they are covered by Public Liability Insurance.

As for outside work - they must work with their own conscience on this one.

Hilary
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#4 Posted : 29 October 2003 08:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Hilary is right - existing insurances should cover all work activities, including provision of first aid services. After all, provision of First Aiders is first and foremost an employee welfare provision and does more good than potential harm.

There seems to be a general fear of litigation against this provision. But we should be clear on what First Aid actually is, and more importantly, what it is not.

First Aid is exactly what it says on the tin - aid provided immediately to handle a casualty until professional medical services take over. It is not a medical service itself. It only assesses the situation and the nature / extent of any injuries, determines what level of action is appropriate to deal with this and to ensure that action is taken. Most of us will never be involved in a serious injury situation - the most we (as First Aiders) are likely to see is minor injuries such as cuts, burns and sprains. These, in many cases, could be handled by the injured party themselves - and I encourage them to do so. They don't need me to apply a plaster.

Where my training kicks in is should they have a serious injury - major cuts or even amputation, broken bones, severe burns. At this point I will have called the ambulance - my duty after that is to stabilise the casualty and monitor their condition, providing further assistance should this suddenly deteriorate.

It should be obvious that since we only use the training when we need it, and this might be only once in our working careers, then keeping it fresh is difficult unless our employer has voluntary refresher sessions in house - most currently don't. Therefore, if you interested, I would recommend you read the HSE consultation document on changes to the First Aid regs, where they suggest a shorter intial training option but increased refreshers every year instead of the current 3. There is still time (just!) to make your views known on the proposed changes and selection of options, on:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/live.htm

Responses are to be in by tomorrow, 30th November.

Therefore, the chances of being in a litiguous situation are exceptionally small - in the workplace. But I would follow the advice of others. If you provide assistance outside of work, do not claim you have any special training as this may attract trouble later. Instead, you are simply being a conscientious citizen who is doing their civil duty, nothing more. The problem is that people still equate First Aiders as being "medically trained" - not true, but it is this misconception that may lead to a claim. However, there is little chance that such a claim would be entertained as the truth on what a First Aider is actually trained in will come out quickly and be dismissed as erroeneous assumption on the part of the claimant. Just make sure that you do not try to do more (or give the impression you can do more) than your training allows.

Upshot - nothing to worry about.
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#5 Posted : 29 October 2003 10:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Shane Johnston
I know the first aider is covered by our insurance, but what happens if the injured individual makes a claim directly against the first aider. Can he simply pass it over to the employer? Is there any way that the First Aider can be held neglegent rather than the employer?
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#6 Posted : 29 October 2003 21:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Sedgwick
At work whether the employer is insured or not (public or employer liability) the employer is vicariously liable for the actions of the employee. Any claim for damages would be against the employer.


Case Law- Romford v Ice Cold Storage Company

Steve
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#7 Posted : 29 October 2003 22:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian stevenson
Thank you to all for the information, this is how I understood it to be, but wanted some confirmation.

Regards
Ian
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#8 Posted : 30 October 2003 09:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
If you are appointed by your employer to provide first aid while at work, you are doing it as part of your job so your legal position for this activity is no different than any other part of your job. Your eligibility of being personally sued will be the same as if you caused loss or injury in any other aspect of your work. As they have said above, it's the employer that the lawyers will go for.
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#9 Posted : 30 October 2003 13:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
With respect to everyone above, I'm not sure we've completely answered the question. The certificate is in first aid AT WORK. These first aiders are not qualified to provide first aid in other situations, so if they do they face the same liabilities as anyone. Employers are vicariously liable, but the first aider COULD still be sued, and many organisations buy indemnity insurance for the individuals involved.
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#10 Posted : 30 October 2003 16:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Neil,

I would contest that the question was properly addressed - you are right to point out that the employee is still at risk of litigation, but it has been argued above that this is a very remote possibility - only in a case of extreme negligence or wilful misconduct will there ever be any real possbility of that happening. What has been said is that in general, by just doing what they are trained to do to the best of their ability, First Aiders are extremely unlikely to be be exposed to legal action being raised against them. No-one has actually said they are immune from it, just that the chance is almost infinitessimal and hasn't happened yet to our knowledge.
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#11 Posted : 30 October 2003 17:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack
Agree entirely Sean.

By the way, it's not 30 November tomorrow!
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#12 Posted : 31 October 2003 08:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Quite right Jack - I'm wishing my life away here! Age is catching up quickly enough without giving it a helping hand . . .

So, you now have a month to get your views in on the consultation!
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#13 Posted : 31 October 2003 20:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
Sean, Jack - I'm not disagreeing with you.
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#14 Posted : 01 November 2003 11:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Bristow
Hi Ian

Interesting point Hilary made about Public Liability Insurance – However, not all Public Liability Insurance Policies include automatic cover for litigation by a non-employee that has or has not received suitable first aid.

The First Aid at Work Regulations 1981 recommend that employers should check with their insurance company to ensure litigation cover (non-employees) is included in their Public Liability Insurance policy.

Regards


David B
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#15 Posted : 01 November 2003 11:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt
If anyone is interested, Royal Mail has a specific policy covering staff giving first aid outside employment conditions. This is turning out to be significant when recruiting people to become first aiders. We have a lot of problems in this area - and a lot of first aiders, but not enough.

Especially when a proportion of them decide not to show up for work...

Email me direct at allan.holt@royalmail.com if you want me to send you a copy of the policy.

Allan
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#16 Posted : 03 November 2003 09:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt
Sorry, folks. I didn't explain myself properly in the last post. What I was offering to send is a copy of our insurance policy so people can see what the terms are - not a policy/procedure in the H&S sense. Sorry for the confusion.

Allan
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#17 Posted : 03 November 2003 12:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Swift
As an occasional first aid trainer for St John Ambulance, this is a question I get asked quite frequently on courses. The answer is that at work the first aider is covered by the employers liability insurance as they are being required to perform the task by the employer. This covers the first aider if something goes wrong whilst they are providing care to the level they have been taught. If they are attempting something that they are not qualified to do the first aider may then find themselves liable, but generally, as has been stated, the lawyers will go for the company.

Outside of work can be more problematic. Whilst the qualification is 'First Aid at Work' the same first aid principles apply in the street - people aren't injured differently just because they are not at work! Anyone with a first aid qualification may render aid, up to their level of training, in any situation. If they get it wrong in the street however they are individually liable. This is where it is important to have some form of insurance cover. Unfortunately in this age of increasing litigation, people are more likely to try to sue for what they believe is a negligent act - there have been an increasing number of claims against both the statutory ambulance services and the voluntary sector in this respect.

It is still unlikely that a claim will arise, providing that the first aider is working within their training, but the legal costs of defending such a case may be crippling. Insurance may well assist with this.

One point in the thread that caught my eye was the question of negligence in the event of failure to act at an incident. As a first aider, you are not legally bound to provide aid. If you feel you are unable to act due to the nature of the incident/injuries there is nothing to stop you saying 'sorry I can't do this'. You are no good to the patient if the task is going to affect you adversely. The situation is different for ambulance crews - they are paid to provide the care and aid and knowingly put themselves into the position of having to.

As an extension to the liability question, it is a good idea for all first aiders to fully record their actions in treating a casualty. These records must be kept confidential, but may be useful in defending any claim later.
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