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#1 Posted : 03 November 2003 17:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Bruce
I hope colleagues can help me out with this one. A manager of a community centre has asked me for some advice regarding application of the COSHH Regs to a domestic standard cooker.

The facts are:

Normal domestic type electric cooker with extractor hood.
Used for a couple of hours each week to produce a roast meal for members of a group involved in community learning.
The group are not employees, but members of a group operated by the Probation Service, using our facilities.

The manager has asked if she, or the course provider, should prepare a COSHH assessment for the combustion products and the fumes generated by the cooking process.

In my opinion a basic risk assessment would suffice in this situation, backed up by a safe system of work, evidence of training for those involved in supervision, by a competent person, and a checklist to record when the filters are changed in the hood (the fumes are extracted to outside). The responsibilities shared between the centre manager and the Probation Service.

I don't believe it's reasonably practicable to test the hood as LEV as defined within COSHH, as it's only used by this group for a couple of hours a week in what is to all intents and purposes, a domestic situation.

What do others think?

If we do a COSHH assessment, does anyone have any experience of this within a catering environment?

Any replies would be gratefully received.
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#2 Posted : 03 November 2003 18:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter J Harvey
Not really sure where you are coming from here, COSHH does not apply unless someone wants to prove otherwise.

The COSHH regulations only apply to substances, or mixtures of substances that have the potential to cause harm if inhaled, ingested or absorbed through the skin.

Therefore the extraction that you provide in a kitchen is to improve both the general working conditions - Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regs or for Food Safety.

Have a look at the Catering Information Sheet CAIS 10 produced by the HSE.
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#3 Posted : 03 November 2003 18:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Ian

I would hope that cooking 'fumes' are not hazardous to health or we are all in trouble!
If the equipment is only extracting heat, then it is not covered by COSHH. Cooking with gas could, I guess, produce nitrogen oxides but I shouldn't think that the concentrations would be anywhere near the OESs.

Paul
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#4 Posted : 03 November 2003 20:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
Sorry to be a dissenting voice, but as far as I'm concerned the hood is LEV, and should be maintained carefully. Many cooking processes produce polyaromatic hydrocarbons, dioxins, particulates and other carcinogenic delights. There's nothing you can do to measure them so it's important to make sure the hood works well and the oven is kept clean. You know that acrid smoke you get if the cheese drips off your pizza onto the hot oven floor? That's bad.
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#5 Posted : 04 November 2003 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lewis T Roberts
Well I quite like the burnt cheesy bits.

This of course does not come under COSHH, however I think that a simple risk assessment be carried out to include the maintenance of the extraction, some method of logging information given in its use and cleaning (where COSHH may apply)and to get some literature on best practice in food hygiene.

Lew
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#6 Posted : 04 November 2003 10:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Not COSHH but I'd want the cooker and hood checked as electrical appliances on a regular basis and the provision of a fire extinguisher and blanket - in addition to the advice given above.
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#7 Posted : 04 November 2003 12:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi
In context of risk from the extract system, the significant ones are from fire and food hygiene--not COSHH. The maintenance & care of the extract system is usually included in the extract hood suppliers instructions. This should suffice.

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#8 Posted : 04 November 2003 12:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker
Neil,

Can't find MEL for burnt cheesy bits in my EH40.

Sorry to take the **** , just as a matter of interest what is it about this particular fume that's dangerous?
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#9 Posted : 04 November 2003 13:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pat Burns MIOSH - SpDipEM - AMIQA
Nice one Neil!
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#10 Posted : 04 November 2003 13:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Bruce
Many thanks to all the respondents.

I had a vague memory that by-products of the cooking process could be detrimental to health, i.e. the cheesy burning stuff; that's what got me thinking about COSHH.

In other words, the hood becomes LEV and as such requires maintenance to comply with the regs. If it's a welfare issue, then COSHH dosn't apply and lots of other stuff including PUWER does.

In balance, I'm sticking with my initial thoughts - risk assessment, safe system, trained supervision and regular maintenance of the hood to manufacturers recommendations with associated record keeping of course!

Thanks once again.
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#11 Posted : 04 November 2003 14:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Do these fumes come under 'CHIP'?

'FAT' chance methinks!
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#12 Posted : 04 November 2003 21:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeff Manion
You should consider the requirements of the gas products produced frm cooking.
If gas cooker there should be some form of gas safety check.

Jeff Manion. MIOSH, RSP, MRSH, MIIRSM,
www.groveservices.co.uk
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#13 Posted : 05 November 2003 09:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
Almost anytime that organic material gets burned, you get substances called dioxins and other stuff produced. These adsorb onto burnt bits, like smoke and the charcoal bits on cooked food. The smoke particulates themselves are also bad news.

This is why no-one wants to live near a waste incinerator, and why you shouldn't eat a barbeque or have a bonfire every night. This is why you shouldn't eat toast that's too burnt.

I know how this sounds, and we all need to eat. It's no problem if you have some ventilation and keep the oven clean.

All that said, I like my pizza well done and I still eat barbies (the food, not the dolls).
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#14 Posted : 05 November 2003 14:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott
No you do not need a COSHH assessment. These are insignificant risks associated with everyday life and pose minimal threat. Yes it is true that there are all sorts of chemical products associated with food and its cooking - too give a few examples: bacon is cured with saltpetre - a constituent part of gunpowder, but when mixed with stomach acid create nitrosamines which are carcinogenic; mushrooms contain Hydrazine - a STRATEGIC chemical which removes oxygen from water, also used as a rocket fuel, is carcinogenic; kippers and smoked salmon contain Polyaromatic Hydrocarbons of which there are over 650 different forms all of which are carcinogenic; sausages have sodium nitrate added by law and like bacon when mixed with stomach acid etc etc I could go on. The point is the amount of product given off in the cooking process is insignificant, the cooker hood on domestic cooking appliances is more for extracting oils and fats from steam than anything else. Yes they need to fitted in accordance with manufacturers guidance and cleaned or changed regularly to minimse the risk of fire. Hope that helps.
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#15 Posted : 05 November 2003 14:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack
Come on Bill lets not get bogged down with common sense
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#16 Posted : 05 November 2003 14:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Mackessack
Thanks Bill,
You've just put me off my lunch.
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#17 Posted : 05 November 2003 15:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker
Bill,

If we all adopt your attitude what will happen to our "jobsworthies" reputation.
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#18 Posted : 06 November 2003 15:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster
Jeff
Bad form, advertising your commercial H&S consultancy by sneaking the website address into your posting.
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#19 Posted : 06 November 2003 19:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
It looks like I'm on some sort of crusade against cooking! I completely agree with all those above who say that this is no big deal. I still feel it's worth ensuring good ventilation (not just for steam) and that cooking equipment is kept clean, but that basically goes for all workplaces.
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#20 Posted : 07 November 2003 09:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Sorry to get even more complicated but whatever happened to HACCP regulations as applied to food hygiene ? Cooking facilities used infrequently, not properly cleaned down and sterilised are almost certainly more significant than chemical (coshh) concernes, or maybe even the fire hazard.
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