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Posted By Michael Gavaghan Whe working on or near main roads is there any formal or neccessary training needed for coning off the highways.
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Posted By Emma Forbes I had a similar query just recently and found that the "Safety At Street Works and Road Works" Code of Practice ISBN 011551958-0 priced £5.99 at The Stationery Office was really helpful - a good reference tool. Hope this helps....
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Posted By Karen Todd Michael,
I know that when my husband used to work for the DOE, he did a lot of courses to get trained in different things - most of which he got certificates for (City & Guilds I think).
One of them was to do with coning off lanes and signing etc, but I can't remember the exact name of it.
It was something they did internally, they didn't get anyone external in, although I think the CITB may run courses on this.
Karen
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Posted By Samantha Fisher There are a number of different qualifications or card registration schemes for highway workers. Anybody working on the highways should have training on the New Roads and Street Works Act, there are levels for both Supervisors and Operatives. CSCS have cards for highway workers which would require NVQ's or equivalent plus the H&S test (there is a specific test for highway operatives). There are also highway sector schemes required in the Specification for Highway Works which require operatives to have gained NVQ's in specific activities to enable them to be classed as competent to carry out those type of works (trunk roads, motorways etc) There is some good information on the Highways Agency website on different courses and requirements. www.highways.gov.uk/contracts/procure/reg_skills. Hope this all helps
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Posted By Ken Taylor There are published standards and guidance on setting out roadworks and whoever does it needs to be competent. However, one wonders as to the extent of knowledge in this area from some of the examples displayed on the roads these days!
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Posted By Samantha Fisher The standard guidance on layouts is Chapter 8 of the Traffic signs manual and details standard layout of traffic management including required lengths of tapers, size and type of signs required and safety zones that should be allowed. All traffic management should be laid out to these diagrams and you will find that most contractors carrying out highways work on a regular basis will adhere to them especially on trunk roads and motorways as it is the operatives lives that are at risk if it isn't done well. It's the same as any other area of H&S there are always those that think it won't happen to them, "I'm only here for 15mins and it'll take ages to set it out properly" or those that just haven't thought about the risk or don't have the training or knowledge to know any better.
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Posted By Steve Wood On a related subject, I'd be interested in opinions on the following, as I'm getting conflicting advice and the "Blue Book" doesn't seem to specifically cover it:
We have staff who work on roads, who have the C&G units for signing/lighting & guarding and/or supervision of, etc. This formal training (i.e. externally assessed) is, I am led to believe, a requirement under NRASWA.
However, do surveyors working on the highway, but off the road (i.e. on footpaths/verges) who put out "Surveying" signs, require the same qualification?
Thanks!
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Posted By Robert K Lewis There most definitely is a requirement for the SCOTVEC C&G certificate for both supervisor and operative under the NRSWA. The publication mentioned by Emma is in fact the formal acop and is linked to the chapter 8 requirements and refers to them for more complex cases. Even work on the footway is covered by the requirements. You should also note that there is an approved code for the re-instatement works and the subsequent liabilities for the work.
Bob
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Posted By Steve Wood Thanks, Robert. You confirm what we're thinking!
But, as these are land surveyors, there is no excavation, etc. merely (!) guys walking around with instruments, surveying poles, etc. who are (usually) only briefly in a fixed position. Is signing (and the subsequent re-positioning) out of proportion considering they'd probably take longer than the work itself?
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Posted By Ken Taylor My understanding is that, where street works requiring a licence are carried out on the public highway, there has to be a supervisor with a prescribed qualification and at least one operative with a prescribed qualification. As to setting out cones where there are no licensed street works, it should require permission from the relevant highway authority (but probably rarely does) and to be safe and sufficient should meet the published standards (eg 'Chapter 8'). I don't think there is a specific qualification for coning but competence will be needed by the person performing this task. However, it is some years since my local government work so please correct me if I am out of date on this one.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Michael
There is a layout and management description for this type of mobile work. Whilst the warning signage etc is more limited there is still a need for the operative training. The supervisor does not have to be on site but must establish the correct methods of work, the sign layout, any guarding requirements and monitor performance periodically. The supervisor can be employed from elsewhere if you do not have the expertise in-house
Bob
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Posted By Laurie A couple of years ago I had a team going out to lop some tree branches.
When I asked my local police force if we could cone off the relevant part of he carriageway, they told me not to worry about that as subject to 24 hours notice they would come and do it for me.
They did too!
Worked for me!
Laurie
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Posted By Robert K Lewis The use of the police is one of those anomolies, they do have emergency closure powers for roads but it is meant only to be used when there is an emergency. The use will very much depend on the individual officer making the decision so I would not contemplate it as an option. The whole purpose behind the NRSWA was to ensure that works were properly controlled, notified to the Local Authority and where possible co-ordinated with other works. Why should a competent employer be seeking to find an easy way round them.
Bob
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Posted By Benedict Thierry Hello everyone,
Yes, Chapter 8, Sector schemes A,B,C&D (operated through Lantra). But these tend to cover longer periods of occupation.
I got the impression this query is for short stops of petween 1 - 60 minutes or so.
For these types of short stop works, I find that the Principal contractor/client often have there own preferences for how these are carried out - variations on a theme. Also depends on time of day, traffic flows, weather conditions, type of road motorway, dual carriageway, single carriageway & local site hazards - hump bridges, bends, brows of hill, sharp bends, type of junction etc.
The client usually have monitoring vehicles moving around patches checking that site rules are being followed. You usually need permission to be on the network, so that they know what & who to expect to be there.
Some issues are very grey at the moment - hopefully things are slowly improving but there are so many conflicts that need considering it sensibly takes time & scrutiny - such as is it better to park with your vehicle front wheels pointing in to the kerb risking your staff being secondary victims in the event of a collision, do you point your vehicle wheels away from the kerb risking putting other road users at risk in the same incident or do you point them straight ahead & hope this avoids both.
As with much medicine - trial & error is often the name of the day.
Benedict
Benedict
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Posted By peter gotch Chapter 8 recognises that in some situations the layouts may be inappropriate.
In terms of the circumstances explained by Steve, where surveyors may be in one location for say 10 minutes maximum, the risks (to both workforce and travelling public) of putting out signing/guarding may outweigh any protection they may offer.
Regards, Peter
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