Posted By Tracey Thompson Hi I would like some advice on how health and safety can be maintained by caretakers/contractors who are required to work on flat roofs such as older school buildings, which were built around the 50's and do not necessarily have suitable anchorage points for harnesses etc. I have information and guidance on working from height, but need more info on working on flat roofs specifically, so that I may put a guidance document together. If anyone already has a guidance in place specifically for schools that could steer me in the right direction, this would be very much appreciated. Tracey

Posted By Martyn Hendrie You may already be aware of HSE publication HS(G) 33 Safety in Roofworks (if not it is worth a look) Usually it is a case of preventing falls from the edge by provision of guard rails and toe boards. (To meet the Construction (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1996). Also, prevention of falls through fragile materials, be they the roof structure (e.g. Asbestos cement roof sheets) of fragile roof lights or glazed sections. All of which are dealt with in the above documents Hope that this helps

Posted By Anthony Elsmore Roof edge protection does not necessarily have to be permanent it can be tied into surrounding parapet walls, the brickwork just below roof level on the outside edge, or be traditional scaffold from ground level, all have relative plus points so speaking to a Roofing/ Scaffold contractor would be useful. A point to remember is that modular walkway type edge protection, often favoured for walking routes to plant on the roof, will probably have to be removed if you need a new roof and a full scaffold to Construction Reg’s will need to be installed. Worth bearing in mind if you have an older roof as modular edge protection is not cheap. Ensure students are kept out of classrooms that may be underneath the area of works, as the supporting structure may not be intact, especially if leaks have weakened the substrate. I have found daily liaison with the contractor/ Head teacher is useful as whole blocks don't need to be closed off at once. Roof-lights should be either covered over using ply- board above the opening or alternatively have a ply- board shield nailed underneath the opening to act as a crash deck to falling debris. Roofing works in particular should be under the control of a Hot- Work permit, best practise would be to check the area 1 hr after extinguishing all flames. Powder extinguishers are generally the best as they can be used on all general roofing products. Even Lead repairs can involve hot work so ensure provisions are included even if it is not expected. All workers should be easily identifiable as belonging to a company as schools in particular have serious problems with security- Bear in mind specified uniforms are better than just specifying a standard high- viz which can be bought by anyone. If you employ a scaffold company to erect edge protection, check individual’s competencies on site & don’t accept one certificate as being proof the whole company is trained. Whoever you have working on site it’s best to check they have valid Insurance. Bit of a scattergun response I know but I hope it’s of use. Best Regards Ant

Posted By Ken Taylor What work are you doing that takes less than 5 minutes, Barry?

Posted By Anthony Elsmore Barry Could you not run a Data cable/ link up into a box held within the building itself so that you don't have to physically go on the roof at all? I can't imagine a landlord being too objectionable to a small box on the wall. Cheers Ant

Posted By Karl Simons There is a lot of talk about it's ok as long as its in excess of 2 meters from the edge is this a specified distance and if so where does it say this?

Posted By Ken Taylor I hope that none of us are suggesting that it's always OK if persons are more than 2m from an unprotected edge, Karl. A risk assessment approach is always needed taking into account current HSE guidance, etc. THe '2m distance' has probably been around for roof workers since metrication when it replaced the former imperial measurement! For example: HSE Construction Sheet 21 reads 'Before deciding what precautions are required for flat roofs, the first consideration must be of the possible hazards that may be encountered when carrying out the work. These include: (a) will the work involve anyone approaching within 2m of an open edge?' ... and 'if the assessment indicates that none of these factors are involved and the risk of falling off or through the roof does not exist it may still be useful to indicate the designated work area by the use of bunting, tape or barriers so that people are not tempted to approach any open edges. If bunting or tape is used it should never be erected closer than 2m from an unprotected edge.' The latest version of HSG33 seems to be less specific on this aspect of flat roof working (see para 66) but says that a 'simple form of barrier' could identify the work area and that 'in most circumstances a distance of at least 2m from the edge will be sufficient. In risk assessment terms, if someone was working for 2 minutes at, say, 50m from an unprotected edge the only likely fall-off risk would be if they wandered off from the work area and so the controls would be those of competence, training, instruction and, possibly, supervision. If they were 50mm from the edge, these would clearly be insufficient - and so the 'line' has to be drawn somewhere and I would suggest that the formerly-published HSE guidance and established industry practice for 2m would be reasonable in many cases. We await, of course, more guidance on the 'Work at Height Regulations' but I suspect that this will also avoid being too specific on very short-term work away from unprotected edges.