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Posted By Heather Aston
On one site we still use drinking water dispensers with the big plastic bottles (no it's not a manual handling question!)
We've had a letter from the supplier saying that as a member of the "Europan Point of Use Drinking Water Association" they are now obliged to notify all their customers of "new EPDWA regulations in accordance with WRAS (water regulations advisory scheme) filtration guidelines".
This apparently requires us to have a new filtration system fitted at a cost of £45 per machine (we have quite a few) and then have them change the filters for us every six months (at £45 each)
This is to ensure "best quality drinking water" without us having to worry about "bacteriological contamination".
Has anyone else heard anything about this from their suppliers? If so what do you propose to do?
Surely since the water is in sealed bottles, we're already paying for "best quality", although I can understand the need to clean and disinfect the machines occasionally.
Naturally this is not a legal requirement, but they want us to write to them saying we accept responsibility for any contamination or water quality issues if we don't fit their expensive new filters and change them at the prescribed intervals.
Comments welcome!
Heather
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Posted By Bill Elliott
Filter out bacteria - Mmmmm - microscopic -millions would fit on a pinhead - filter?? Really!!! Sounds a bit odd to me - have you tried accessing the organisations where this is purported to have come from. To my mind, water is food, and as such would have to comply with Food Safety legislation. Do you really want sterile water anyway, some bacteria is inevitable and necessary for healthy digestion etc - definitely more info needed.
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Posted By Jeff Manion
Filters will filter out chlorine.
Water is provided with low level chlorine as it effectively kills bacteria,
If the water is filtered the potential is for the bacteria to rise.
Recently we sampled drinking water fountain prior to filter at mains and after filter
results were
tap (mains water) total viable counts (TVC) at 22 deg C = 7 and 37 deg C = 3 acceptable.
fountain water TVC.
at 22 deg C 4.1 x 10/3 and 37 deg C 8.5 10/3
Not acceptable as a drinking water.
Be concerned but not paranoid.
Considered who may use water.
Individuals who may be less than healthy may be susceptible.
Jeff Manion
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Posted By Heather Aston
Thanks for the replies guys.
Bill
Yes I've tried the EPDWA, WRAS and supplier sites - not very helpful at all. There's an EPDWA self-assessment for water coolers which includes the question "are the filters changed as per the manufacturer's recommendation" but no evidence of a six month "requirement" from anyone but the manufacturer.
Jeff
Thanks you very much for the figures - that's exactly the sort of evidence I was after! These dispensers are in a factory - normal fit healthy people. We clean them regularly, but have not changed the filters (as far as we can find out) for ages. The water is in sealed bottles changed as required. I smell someone trying to make a fast buck here.....
Heather
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Posted By Kevin stone
Hi guys, following this with intrest as I am sure others are, as this will probably relate to about 99.999% of firms. My gut instinct after reading these is that it does sound a bid suspect.
I await further developments the game is afoot!!
Cheers Kev.
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Posted By David Thomas
Heather
It sounds to me the letter you have received has been worded to worry you - and it appears to have worked.
As far as I know any requirement to filter doesnt cover bottled water. However, if you have direct mains fed water or coffee machines then these should have in-line filters fitted and should be changed regularly. If you discuss with the filter manufacturers you will find they recommend a 6monthly change but this is dependent on the useage i.e. so many cups of water/coffee.
The filter isnt there to change the content of the water or take out chlorine but to filter out other impurities that can be found in mains or tanked water. However it should be remembered that the further down the 6month period the more the filter is retaining muck and will be working harder to operate.
We had a "bad taste" problem with vending machines that was solved by changing the filters - the contractor hadnt bothered for almost 2 years and the taste was coming from the water passing through clogged filters.
regards
dave
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Posted By Debbie Walker
Heather,
We have plenty of these machines installed at our sites and have a supply company who isn't afraid of trying to tap us for additional money if they think they can. So far as I'm aware we haven't been informed of the need to do fit filters and then change them every 6 months. However, our units are rented not bought so this may influence them as they would have to fit and pay for them before we do via the rentals!
Debbie
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Posted By Heather Aston
Dave
Your thinking on the bottled vs mains argument is exactly the same as mine. I would expect to put some kind of in-line filter in a mains dispenser, but since we're paying for bottled water I'd expect it to be of drinkable quality straight out of the bottle (mind you so is our mains water to be honest)
As observed above, I might expect a filter to actually BECOME a breeding ground for bacteria. I shall be investigating further exactly what our current dispensers have in the way of filters (or not) and what our supply contract says about cleaning/disinfecting them (if anything).
The part that gets me is the bit that says if we choose not to have their new filters fitted, we have to notify them in writing (fine so far) and accept responsibility for any problems arising out of bacteriological contamination or drinking water quality! So if the water in the bottled was contaminated, we've just accepted responsibility for it have we? I think not.
If we choose not to accept their new filters, I shall write back to say so, but will not say anything about this responsibility - interesting to see what they do then.
I know this isn't a huge sum of money, but it's the principle of the thing. So many companies write to us these days quoting "new regulations" and there must be scores of smaller companies who pay up just because they don't have the expertise (or time) to argue the toss. No wonder British business struggles to be competitive.
Rant over
Heather
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Posted By steve e ashton Why not just junk the bottled water and revert to tap water? Provided you use mains (rather than tanked) water supply, the drinking water regulations are there to ensure your supply is free of unhealthy contaminants including bacteria. Previous studies have identified higher levels of bacteria in bottled water supplies than would be permitted in tap water. See this link for further information. http://www.dwi.gov.uk/papers/dwrcc.htmI personally believe the whole bottled water industry is nothing more than a huge rip off anyway. If you are prepared to pay £200 a year or more for your bottled water, why cringe at another £45 every six months or so. I would never opt to drink bottled unless travelling abroad, in places where the tap water was not treated to the same rigorous standards as are applied here. And, to an earlier posting.... yes, filters can remove bacteria, but it requires an activated adsorbent to remove chlorine. Most bottled waters are NOT treated with chlorine - that's why there's so much bacteria in them... Mains supply is treated, disinfected, filtered, treated again, monitored and tested to the highest standards by the 'producers' and by the regulators. Why pay more - you are already paying for the tap variety to flush and wash - but the amount you pay for it is so high because its all treated to be potable. If we all drank bottled, the water companies would be allowed to lower their standards and we could pay less in water rates. You pay for it - use it! And, yes, I did work in the (public) water industry for a while... Steve
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Posted By Neil Pearson
The canteen at a company I worked for long ago used to filter its tap water, and it was a pain to make sure the water didn't end up being lower quality than the tap water, after paasing through contaminated filters. And this was a company that specilised in filtration!
We've all seen examples of this type of marketing, and of course if you write the requested letter it doesn't change the position one jot. No supplier can waive its liabilities by having a customer's signature. Forget the request to write in accepting liability, it means nothing, just a tactic to scare you. You're the customer for crying out loud!
This reminds me of letters I got a few years ago insisting that all fork trucks had to be retro-fitted with roll-over protection...
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Posted By Heather Aston
Steve - you're right about mains water machines being preferable - all our other sites have made the change. We will inevitably do it on this one too eventually.
It's £45 per machine BTW and as I said it's not the cost - it's the principle of the way they are going about it with "scare tactics".
I'm actually neither scared nor worried by their stupid letter - I deal with damages claims so I've seen much scarier things - it just annoys me that some people will be and will probably be pushed into paying for unnecessary work.
No-one else had similar letters then? (I almost feel priveleged to have been specially selected)
Heather
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Posted By John Webster
Heather
It looks as if your supplier is either trying to extract more work out of you by scare tactics, or hasn't a clue what the actual requirements are.
In either case I would simply change supplier and tell them why I have done it.
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