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#1 Posted : 14 October 2004 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew V
I would appreciate an interpretation of the following section of the above regulations:

Appendix 3 (Risk Assessment Filter)
Paragraph 23 (Guidelines for pushing and pulling)

My understanding is that it takes double the amount of effort the start or stop a load than it does to keep the load in motion. Therefore, on the basis of the guideline figure of 20kg force to start/stop the load for men and 10kg force to keep the load in motion, the maximum load on an even surface which can be handled is 500kg.

For women, this would be 350kg.

If anyone is able to comment on whether my interpretation is correct or not then I would be most interested to hear from them.

Many Thanks,

Andrew.
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#2 Posted : 14 October 2004 09:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
Sorry I don't get it. If the max load that can be started or stopped is 20kg for men, then following your approach the max load that can be kept in motion safely is 10kg, on the basis that the load will have to be stopped again, surely? I guess I've misunderstood. I think this idea of double the force for stopping and starting is too crude.

On a flat surface, once something is in motion, you only have to push it to overcome friction. If the load is 500kg, even with friction helping you, you'd still have to apply some serious force to stop half a tonne! Guidelines are dangerous things sometimes.
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#3 Posted : 14 October 2004 10:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson
I'd like to see your working. Obviously by applying a 20kg force you can gradually accelerate (start or stop) a 500kg load. But what if something unexpeccted happens and the load must be stopped quickly?
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#4 Posted : 14 October 2004 12:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew V
The guidelines specify the following:

"As a rough guide the amount of force that needs to be applied to move a load over a flat, level surface using a well maintained handling aid is at least 2% of the load weight. For example, if the load weight is 400kg then the force needed to move the load is 8kg".

The guidelines go on to give a table:

Guideline for stopping or starting a load for men is 20kg (ie about 200 newtons)
for women is 15kg (ie about 150 newtons)

Guideline for keeping the load in motion for men is 10kg (ie about 100 newtons)
for women is 7kg (ie about 70 newtons)

Regards,

Andrew.

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#5 Posted : 14 October 2004 13:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charles Robinson Tech SP
The following hse report may be of use:

Review of the risks associated with
pushing and pulling heavy loads

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr228.htm
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#6 Posted : 14 October 2004 13:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad
Slight hijack..apologies
I once came seriously unstuck using the 20kg for men and 10 kg for women guidelines. We used the NIOSH quantitative method for carrying out manual handling assessments. One of the constant factors that the calculation uses is 20 for men and 10 for women. When I trained a group of women in using this method, I immediatly got accused of sexism, and the harder I tried to explain the deeper I dug the hole!!
So beware. Get your arguments ready before training on these guidelines!!
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#7 Posted : 14 October 2004 14:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I think some of us are getting a bit lost in the maths.

You are about right Andrew in as much as if the amount of force needed to keep a load in motion is 'at least 2%' of its weight and the HSE guideline figure for men doing this is 10kg, it follows that 100% of the load will be no more than 500kg. However there are all the other aspects to consider including inertia, resistance, incline, surface condition, etc, etc.
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#8 Posted : 15 October 2004 09:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nigel Hammond
Instead of using theoretical maths, have you considered fish scales? If you go to a good iron mongers, you can get a 0 to 50Kg fish scales. Then if you pull the load with the fish scales, you can see the force necessary to get it moving and to keep it moving.

I am not a physicist, so I may be talking rubbish, but I would imagine that a mathematical approach would need some magic formula that takes into account friction of the bearings, traction of the wheels, etc etc.
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