Posted By Roger
Hi All
Just seen details on the IOSH Conference for 2005 and I was wondering what others felt with respect to its real usefulness.

For example question: What affect does it really have on progressing OS&H within business's?

The costs do appear rather expensive for the average SME to send 'their man' and arguably expensive for the individual to fork out themselves. In my experience the conference and its topics lean more to the larger blue chip organisations rather than SMEs.

So, bearing in mind a lot SMEs haven't even got a H&S Policy and the very mention of the words H&S bring up signs of the crucifix, what do others really think?

Is the conference in its current format really useful/worthwhile?

Is it a lot of 'nice to have's'?

Is it just a 'jolly' to meet and greet?

Couldn't we appeal to the wider masses more?

Considering 'Joe public' know about RoSPA and not about IOSH, is enough being done/churned out by IOSH?

Few questions there I know. Yes and I know that IOSHs main duty is to its members but could 'we' not do more for the masses and really make a difference?

Merry Xmas & a safe & healthy 2005 to all.
Rog

Posted By Dave Wilson
Agree,

One its good to get CPD!

Its good for conultants to spout off!

Its good for networking!

Its good for IOSH people who want to get higher office!

Its good for Golf, why did we leave Harrogate, rudding park is brills!

ITs not very good for info which you can use in your daily work, too much proffessors and theory as well as consultants.

Its good for the 'look at how good and big we are!!' for guests.

That said the Rospa / bsc ones are just as bad.

Its good for people selling their wares.

It is really good on particular stands to see what technology and innovation is out there.

Its good on other stands as they give you stuff in return for a business card, so I make mine up so I dont get all the junk mail.

Its also quite good to put a face to 'The Grange' people.

Its not just the 500 ickies its the Hotac and expenses and beer tokens as well.

Its good to meet old friends and get bladdered or is that binge drinking!

Apart from that it's in Wales the home of the English Football team!

Not good for much else frankly, used to be able to turn up in the morning and then go and sit in the pub for 3 days but have to get CPD form now before enetering 'arena'Do my CPD diffirently now with something which IS worth while for this.

Here comes the flack!!

Posted By Jez Corfield
Roger

It is costly and yes, most SME’s are not going to get involved, but do you go to the local IOSH meetings? These contain a lot of info that might be useful to SME’s and cost nothing.

And if you don’t like the outlook and direction of the conference you have the power to do something about it. The IOSH council elections give members a chance to influence the organisation, and I suppose, to change the direction of the conference. So if you don’t like it…get involved – it will be interesting to see what other members think though.

BTW - I dont attend every year because of time/cost.

Dave

Of the 24 guest speakers only 4 are consultants.

I am attending as a guest speaker - I felt compelled to reply. I am not going to say 'look at how good or big I am', nor am I selling anything, it does not incur payment either– I am going because there are some important safety messages to get across and this is the best way to do it.

In fact, I am hard-pushed to identify how most of the speakers are going to benefit in the ways you mention. To be honest, your priorities seem to be getting CPD points, golf and drinking. So it is clear that everybody wants, and gets, something different from this anyway.

See you at the 19th for a large one.

Jez

Posted By Neil Budworth
OK chaps here is your chance to make sure the IOSH conference 06 contains what you would like to see !

I will be chairing the conference 2006 working party so if you can give me specific information on the kind of things that you would like to see there, I'll see what I can do.

Obviously I can not, and would not guarantee to put any specific issue on the programme, but I will guarantee that any suggestions you make will be put to the conferences working party and will be discussed.

So over to you !!!

Best Regards

Neil

Posted By Roger
Thanks Neil
OK - here's a couple of starters....

Free open invitation to ALL local SMEs and their associated safety persons and if no safety persons the relevant Directors or HR individuals. Could be done by 'flyer' or what about using the local newspaper of even the 'free mag' every town has one?

Have a 'session' for the SMEs when they get to the Conference - giving but importnatly a listening session as well.

Drop the costs of the conference - having what I would imagine is about 1%-2% attendance is not really very good is it? I'm sure one of the reasons for such low figures would be cost - the place last year was very empty.....

More to follow Neil when I have had some further thought - off for the mince pies and red wine now.

Very best wishes to everyone for Christmas and 2005.

Roger

Posted By Stuart Nagle
Intetresting to here the comments of those who have attended IOSH conferences in the past, as well as those who can't afford it.

For my own part I find that they are too expensive - can't get employer backing to pay for attendance and I do not consider the costs for 2 days attendance as an IOSH member (+ accommodation if required) is value for money - for those paying higher prices, probably more so. I have seen a lot of professional bodies struggle to fill places at conferences as their prices have increased - and almost priced themselves out of the conference 'business', as obviously this is a business and makes a lots of money for the respective organising body.

When I worked in the Local Government (in highways/drainage) I was a member of the Institution of Works & Highways Management (IWHM - which merged with the Institution of Civil Engineers some years ago) which used to hold both regional conferences and a national conference.

Having organised a regional conference, finding and booking locations (a college), writing to and getting some top speakers to appear and give presentation on various hot topics of the day, organising a show to run in tandem for companies to display their wares (internal and external with municipal vehicles etc on display as well), and arranging catering, and doing all the bookings, advertising, banking and correspondence involved, I know it can be achieved and that the costs of doing so are not prohibitive and permit tickets to be priced at a reasonable and affordable level (£25.00 covered all costs and make a tidy profit for the last one I ran at NESCOT). The kind of level where both employers and their employees can happilliy attend without strapping the budgets...

It would be nice to see something similar done by IOSH, at regional level, and perhaps a percentage of income from such events passed back to IOSH to sub the costs of members attending a national conference, and of course, the prices for members reduced to something affordable for all members instead of the few!! (more bums on seats at lower costs can equate financially to less bums on seats at higher costs!!).

Those regional and non-national seminars that are run at present also seem to be hung up on charging very high prices and also appear expensive for what you're getting, and also probably prevent better member attendance.

I think personally that this whole issue needs revisiting. After all, are these events not supposed to be for the membership in the most part? Pricing members out of the ability to attend (unless their holding the budget strings in large organisations - and attendance is a formality) it not conducive to membership participation, and when it come to participation in affairs, benefits will be reaped if members are able to particpate in the organisations events rather than being excluded through what appears to many to be a kind of elitism and the financial rewards to the organisation put ahead of members interests.

More though required IOSH...

Stuart

Posted By Roger
Thanks Lawrence
The points you highlight for the next conference are certainly very interesting and I believe a positive step.

I would also like to say that I DO apprecaite those, ike yourself who give of their time freely and like I said before, in the main I believe the members do very nicely thank you very much - I'm just looking at the 'bigger picture' and us (IOSH)getting to be known more. I also believe that 'we' are consulted, but I do find that at the end when 'we' have fedback it appears that 'we' are not listened to - you know 'OK alright, but we'll do it this way anway' so..... a bit frustrating.

The comments from Stuart are also very valid - cost, not only of the conference but don't forget the added expense of transport and staying, is a crucial factor.

PS I know Neil and I should imagine judging by his and your comments Lawrence and maybe a few more ideas from this thread, next years conference could be a 'best ever' eh?

Now theres a challenge.....

Roger

Posted By Dave Wilson
A lot of valid points here chaps / chapesses the problem I have with 'Conference' there is really nothing in it for the majority of Safety people within IOSH, its aimed more at the Theologist / Consultant level and does not really give an insight to HS&E issues which 'hands on' safety advisors generally deal with on a daily basis, rather than Corporate Safety Managers who 'Drive a desk' and hold the purse strings.

Its mainly directed at large Blue Chip / FTSE company safety people who are generally very well experienced and are RSP etc and H&S Consultants, as they need to keep on top of current 'High level' issues and ways of doing things. Look at the persons delivering Director, Head of, Professor, Dr, Manager etc

What relevance do the topics have for an Associate or Tech Sp (who are the majority in IOSH)? As an RSP myself a lot of the stuff is very high powered and is only a scant overview in a small window of time, would I really go out of my way and find out more??

I have a shelf load of conference papers from the past and honestly dont know why I have never thrown them out.

Is there representation on the Conf Committe from this group?

That said I'll be there myself, apparently close to a future Ryder Cup Venue.

I know its a difficult area as most 'safety' people follow Establised processes and procedures written by HQ or use HSE advice in the form of ACoP and Guidance notes etc, so if you pitch at that level will you 'turn off' the FIOSH and RSP people which are the mojority of people at conference? or are they?

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of membership grades at Cardiff, can this be done? as a % of overall attendance as well as % of IOSH Membership.

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Roger

A bloody good point you made ! I thought perhaps it was just me who thought how expensive all these conferences are and out of the pocket of many individuals and SMEs.

I am a TU h&s rep and a member of IOSH since 2001. I hope I speak for many other TU reps who are also members, regarding the cost of not just conferences but also traning courses, qualifications, books etc.

I think IOSH have lost sight with some of their objectives. There are thousands of h&S reps who do a good job in the field. Indeed, many of today's professionals were once h&s reps. Yet looking at the recent IOSH CPD prospectus the costs are prohibitive for many like me. I am not averse to spending a few bob. In fact, I have paid for all my own membership fees, including IIRSM and a MSc in Health and Safety Management.

Therefore, I feel I can quite justly say the current situation has got out of hand and I for one will not be completing the CPD course and not just because of the costs. I believe that the industry and IOSH will lose a lot of support from non full-members and perhaps some full-members too.

The concept as Roger implies is akin to 'jobs for the boys.' There are too many espousing the virtues of health and safety whilst lining their own pockets with academic pontification in the guise of consultants or speakers with a string letters after their name. I never got into health and safety for all this B.. Sh..

Well, that is my mantra. Sorry if I have offended anyone, and as for the rest...I'll get round to you next year !!!!!!!!!

Merry Xmas

Ray (with no letters)

Posted By Roger
Well thanks a lot Nigel - like you say 26,000 members, now then how many attend? Oh well I guess alls well with the conference and I am ridiculous in thinking it should be done differently.

You're attitude Nigel is exactly what discourages people to 'come forward', volunteer or whatever.

I think you should read my thread again - it is not just about members - its about the big picture. Giving free attendance to local SMEs at the venue of Conference would be great PR. You know, try and get individuals 'turned on' to what IOSH are trying to do - in a round about way it may have an effect of increasing our membership base.

Thanks for Lawrence and Neil in taking the blinkers off but I tell you what this Institution is bl**dy frustrating. I've been to every conference since 1992 and it NEEDS to change and evolve. Am I one of just a few who wants to 'embrace change' or try to do something differently?

Roger

Posted By Gilly Margrave
So I assume I'll be seeing some of you at Hazards in Leeds on 29th to 31st July then. Less that £200 including accomodation and food as well as a chance to slag off a few of the great and the good.

Gilly

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Neil

I am not doubting your sincerity for one moment, but I am not sure you have grasped the princples of Roger's thread or the comments thereafter.

No one has mentioned TechSP or Associate members. If it was aimed at me then just because I am a TU H&S rep does not mean I am TechSP, which I am not. Why do you suggest that particular topics should be aimed at these members anyway? Do you think they are not capable of understanding 'corporate' matters. Tut, tut. You should get out more.

Neil, you should give up and stop digging a great big hole for yourself. You obviously cannot see any further than your Royal Charter.

And seasons greetings to you..

Regards

Ray

Posted By Merv Newman
So, perhaps the problem is not the conference (though I will say that the advertised content is not worth the price for me to pay) but with the IOSH image.

Jez, summarising previous postings, said : "not enough in it for members, not enough in it for non-members, not enough in it of a practical nature, too much of a political platform, not enough in it for SME's or unions.

I think that the same goes for the the IOSH image in the minds of the above groups. Here I am not talking about the conference nor even about what IOSH actually does. What are we seen to be doing and standing for by all those groups ?

I used to know Jim Tye (passed away lo, these many years). He was Director General of the British Safety Council. HE was the man the press instantly went to if a safety problem made the news. In their minds he was safety. And he always gave them in instant, often controversial, answer. Other safety organisations would then attack his solution, which forced them to come up with better, more reasoned alternatives. Which got the debate going nicely. I believe that, though he was often wrong, he did more to bring safety to the public eye than any other person.

(come back Jim, all is forgiven - except for the G&T you still owe me)

It's an image problem and tinkering with the conference agenda is not going to change that.

Today, there is no equivalent of Jim. How often do the press ask for the opinion of IOSH about a breaking safety story ? And how often does the response get published in the next edition ?

Posted By Brett Day
What can I say that hasn't already been said ?
Raymond I agree entirley with your comments on costs of conferences and CPD. I have worked and am working for consultacies and without fail every single one has baulked at the cost of these conferences. Most of my qualifications have been self funded and there comes a point where IOSH in it's quest for it's Royal Charter and to be seen as a 'Professional' body is slowly alienating the non corporate members and pricing itself out of reach.

When the TechOSH memebership level comes in it will effectively 'downgrade' my membership and the cpd, if the prices stay at current levels will be beyond my means of affording (My employers have sent me on specific courses relating to skills I need for the job but IOSH doesn't seem overly keen on recognising them for cpd purposes).

Posted By Bill Fisher
I am not going to delve into the Conference question or indeed Raymond's concerns but I do feel that a view that CPD can only be got by attending paid events needs to be corrected.

CPD can be gained in many ways - paid events being one - but working on developments within your company, attending meetings (not just H&S), supporting initiatives, working on H&S and other issues within the local school etc etc etc are all valid.

Valid? Do you believe they enhance your skills/knowledge, be it in H&S or management etc, then if you record and where appropriate submit a resume then YOU can claim.

Perhaps we have all become accustomed to taking the easy road to CPD through paid events, but if we actually want to achieve CPD in the two year cycle then local can work.

Posted By Heather Aston
In response to Ray's comments on the cost of CPD and agreeing with Bill's view, here's a "real" example.

I have just submitted my latest CPD form for the two year cycle ending 31 Dec 04. Cost of events attended - £40. No external courses, no big seminars, some in-company training, but mostly based on what I've actually done in my job to learn and implement new stuff.

I'm looking at joining a second professional body and their CPD is really scary. They insist on a set number of hours per year and at least half must be what they call "formal" events, by which they DO mean formal courses of study, attendance at local branch meetings, lecturing, etc. Much more onerous than IOSH.

Honestly Ray, don't be put off - I had a good look through the glossy CPD courses brochure as well and then put it back on the shelf. It doesn't have to be like that.

Heather