Posted By Tony Gibbs This case should give you all the information you need. regards Tony http://www.swarb.co.uk/c.../1972BRB_Herrington.html

Posted By Heather Aston Sylvia I advise a local school where we had exactly the same problem except that ours was a pitched roof! I don't think you would necessarily be held negligent for not fixing edge protection, but as you are aware of the risk you must definitely be seen to be doing something. How are the kids getting onto the roof? In our case it was via the cast iron downpipes. We painted these with the anticlimb paint - this had an almost immediate effect. Secondly we introduced a security patrol - this was especially useful during the holidays when the majority of the problms occurred. Although it was not cheap, we felt it was worth the expense compared with the ongoing cost of repairing the damage the school had started to suffer - our problem had escalated into vandalism and it was only a matter of time before arson resulted. Once the local kids got to know that the patrols might be round at any time of day or night and relised what a mess the anti-climb paint made, they went elsewhere. It might also be worth talking to the local community policeman - I'm not surprised you can't get them to come when called if they are as short staffed as in our area - but you might be able to get them to come by on a regular patrol visit with a police car - this worked for us. Good luck Heather

Posted By Neil Pearson This is what's called "occupier's liability", and it's the reason railway operators keep getting in trouble when kids find a gap in a fence and get killed running across tracks. You have to take resonable steps to protect anyone you can reasonably foresee being on a site you occupy. You're right to question exactly what steps are reasonable, but trespassers definitely must be protected. Apparently this is partly why many shops have lights left on overnight - in case people break in, trip over something and sue the shopkeeper. It's a mad world, but there you go. My feeling is that the edge protection is needed if you know there's a danger of trespassers falling.

Posted By Sylvia Tyler Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. Heather, I was thinking of the edge protection to prevent them from falling once on the roof not preventing them from accessing it. I will be using a little bit of everyones comments - it is just difficult convincing managers that they should take some action!! Sylvia

Posted By Eric Burt Sylvia If you know children are getting onto your roof, then make sure your sky-lights are protected. There have been cases where children have fallen through them and injured themselves. Eric

Posted By Stevie Sylvia, We had a case a couple of years back where a young lad fell from a school roof (easy access)and was injured. Following an HSE visit our local authority was 'advised' that we should carry out assessments of all our properties and determine what control measures were appropriate to prevent similar incidents. To address this we developed an assessment matrix that helped determine action to be taken...the assessment was based on a variety of factors: e.g: accessibilty, location of building, history of unauthorised access, etc. and on completion we were able to prioritise the action necessary. Although 'anti-climb paint' was a control option we considered we were advised that it could only be applied above a certain height (3m I think) so the local 'anti climb guard manufacturers' had a field day !!! Stevie

Posted By Tony Gibbs Sylvia, here,s another verygood website. scroll down and look at the tomlinson v congleton mbc case as mentioned earlier. Its a heavy read but interesting . Tony

Posted By Jason Touraine Apart from Stevie, everyone seems to have referred to potential civil action. The HSE can (and indeed has) taken enforcement action where trespassers (especially children) have fallen from the roof of school buildings. Actually, I'm not even sure why any of us are concentrating on the law. Surely, if you know children are getting on to a 2 storey roof you would want to do something about it because they might get hurt? I would start by looking at the building and see how they are gaining access. Someone has already mentioned drain pipes. There could be other building features which help them gain access eg porches, a single storey section of flat roof, walls and fences abutting the building, adjacent sheds and garages, anything handy which can be used (such as those big rubbish bins on wheels - secure them away from the building; contractors materials). The solutions depend on circumstances. Climb resistant paint has been mentioned. In other instances it may be necessary to alter or even remove the features