Posted By Tom Clark I have had some experience of EHO's and HSE 'inspecting' premises and only making comments like you have - about the The H&S Law Poster. If they don't see any other problems or even look for them then they don't comment. These are very busy people and never enough to go round carrying out full inspections. They can also be very helpful in giving advice and assistance - it's not always notices. Maybe you could get hold of some leaflets on the matter and pass on the information to employees. A good place to start and you can download - is the HSE site. www.hse.gov.uk Regards Tom

Posted By steven bentham I am not the worlds best supporter of EHO's! However the HSE's enforcement policy statement does talk about proportionality, openess, targetting and consistancy. If everytime that EHO or an inspector came across a workplace without a COSHH assessment they prosecuted them out of business then they would be not following their own enforcement guidelines. If the shop is requested to put up a poster and provide information/training then it is a first step to what is a relatively low risk work environment. Also the EHO is trying to encourage ownership in a framework of legislation that is supposed to have an element of self regulation. If you feel that it is that dangerous I presume you have not allowed the placement to go ahead! (I am not at all running down the ill-health effects of any occupational group, I think this is a vastly under estimated problem) We have all seen bad accidents etc, but regardless of your views enforcement is and should (in my view) targetted at hish risk areas, unless you want to pay for a lot more inspectors out of your taxes and rates.

Posted By Mark Jacobs As an EHO and member of IOSH working in the private sector I can understand your frustration. I worked for a company with sites across the UK and there were significant variances in the standard of inspection for food hygiene and health and safety from total apathy to ridiculous detail. I spent a lot of my time explaining what the legal requirements were to the EHOs. I find through personal experience that only those enlightened enough to take a further safety qualification have any grasp of the concept of risk assessment. As they have limited knowledege they do not ask appropriate questions and fall back on physical shortcomings. The level of prosecutions in the retail sector is so low as LA legal departments will often only take a case where a favourable result is assured or the business has hacked off a local councillor. Look on the bright side. If health and safety in hairdressing salons fell under the remit of the HSE it would never have been inspected. At least now they have complied with one set of regulations. I do feel better for that!

Posted By Stuart Nagle Could it be a case of Environmental Health Officers being good at what they are particularly trained for - Environmental Health Work; e.g. food hygiene inspections, dealing with infestations? etc etc... But, perhaps are not quite so good at dealing with health and safety issues, that from my knowledge they are not specifically trained to deal with? Was the EHO involvement as LA level (people who routinely visit premises in their LA area anyway) a simple 'shortcut' of trying to provide the H&S inspection system on the cheap that should be in force by professional H&S persons!!! However, before we berate the poor EHO, a great many of which are very well qualified, like many in the H&S Sector, and I am sure work very hard, should we not be asking questions about the veracity of Local Authority H&S Inspection work. I know this subject has reared its head recently, when HSE took LA's to task over the quality/quantity of their H&S work, however, what measures have been taken to make things better and how has this improved the situation, if at all? I don;t recall anything being the recent - and now defunct HSC proposals for LA H&S work!! It would appear to me that in the most part, the only specific H&S advisors working for LA's are in the most part their own H&S advisors, employed by the LA to provide H&S advice specifically to the LA in respect of their own working environment/premises - not anyones else's. I fully appreciate, having worked in Local Government, the stresses and strains on the service, but if the service is going to be provided, should it not be provided effectively? I sympathise with Kenny in his views., a HSE H&S Poster is not preventing the sores and rashes associated with dematitis and advise/action should have been given/taken, but at least the staff now know who to complain to so perhaps they too can jump on the claims bandwaggon!! Whilst this kind of thing persists, things are not going to improve in respect of SME's and commercial premises. We often hear on this site about claims, but inaction and non-professional H&S advice in dealing correctly with issues is not going to help reduce the issues at source by removing/reducing the problems. Yes, we can whack-em with notices, sue em in the courts, visit and inspect every month to 'follow up (oh yes the poster is up... very good...well done), but unless we get them on board... we will never get them to comply/improve with what is best for them and their employees...and ultimately evryone else... How should this area be tackled/improved??? There, that should elicit some shots across the bow!! Stuart

Posted By Dave Wilson Stuart agree with most of your sentiments here, however what hasn't been said is that EHP's are 'enforcers' and not really advisors or H&S consultants. They only do this in what is called low risk environments etc. The HSE are specialits in 'safety' but would you expect them to give you advice on Nuisance or Part A processes or contaminated land, pest control, urban renewal, landfill, waste management, food hygiene, fitness for occupation, housing grants, HMO's pest contol, etc the list goes on. The main workload of an EH dept is to ensure public health and H&S is only a very small bit of their toolbox and it is really only EHO's who have gone into the private sector who would advance their H&S knowledge, to that end to try and do something the CIEH have an HSE person seconded to them to try and raise this profile. Know it doesnt help the 'salon' etc but in the overall scheme of things it is very low risk.

Posted By Kenny McGillivray Thanks to you all for your comments, I can sympathise with EHO's and the huge work load. I will keep banging on at the businesses I deal with and hopefully make the experience a wee bit safer for the young people we place. Thanks again and I'm glad I found the IOSH forum it keeps me from despairing. Kenny