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#1 Posted : 18 January 2005 17:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner Welcome to the unusual and dare I say whacky world of municipal waste in Northern Ireland.For far too long, safety Professionals in Northern Ireland have had to tolerate an unacceptable standard wherby local authorities permit their employees to collect wheelie-bin waste by operatives travelling free standing on specifically designed ride on steps(there is actually a design standard for these damnned things-EN 1501 dating as far back as 1995)The standard relates to grip handles,speed restrictors footplate size etc.Yes, these are the very same yokes you see on your Greek or Spanish holiday.In fairness to the BSI Commitee of the day, they were not in favour of them and talked in length about having the steps risk assessed per nature of deployment. The tack taken by our local hse in northern ireland is again a similar cop out. Hse(ni) tolerates these ride on devices subject to collection route asessment-Factors to be included are type of road,volume of traffic,gradient changes,steps making contact with the ground right hand turns on busy roads,blind corners. etc(They do point out this list is only for reference purposes and is not exhaustive!!)By the way Guidance note PM 52 Safety In the Use Of Refuse Compaction Vehicles is deemed to be dated by our local hse as it was supposedly geared to 'loose non container' collection systems Sorry for boring you with this background-Cutting to the chase, ARE any municipal authorities or contracted companies presently using ride on systems in mainland GB ??Can a case be made for operating them ?? Do you feel they can be part of a safe system of public highway waste collection.??Do we need a rehashed PM52 which comments on ride on devices specifically. Your views are most welcome (Ps The more enlightened authorities in NI dont operate ride on systems,sadly some waste manager is constantly upgrading or implementing these devices usually against best advice of an iosh safety professional. )
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#2 Posted : 19 January 2005 11:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Aidan Unfortunately I cannot help you, apart from to say that I fully agree that these things should not be used and should be removed. My main reason for posting is to let you know that you are not alone. I have been in South Africa last year and travelling between Johannesburg and Pretoria on one of the busiest motorways in the country we went past a waste collection vehicle that was doing about 60 mph on the motorway with the bin collectors standing on the steps at the back of the vehicle. To my amazement, the vehicle then pulled over to pick up a pedestrian walking down the hard shoulder, and this guy got on to the step as well!!!!
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#3 Posted : 19 January 2005 19:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle You will not find them in England, so far as I'me aware. When I worked for the Milton Keynes Borough Council some years ago, we had a refuse worker killed who slipped off a cart and went under wheels. Hope you can get rid of the damned things... Stuart
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#4 Posted : 25 January 2005 13:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By CMcGrory As a matter of interest - a recent site visit by the HSE with one of the Council's palladin crews, made the following recommendation: "constant climbing in and out of vehicles can also contribute to the development of long term musculoskeletal problems, suitable foot platforms and handholds should be provided and well maintained on all vehicles". The debate continues?
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#5 Posted : 25 January 2005 13:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By CMcGrory As a matter of interest - the HSE made the following recommendation on a recent site visit: "constant climbing in and out of vehicles can also contribute to the development of long term musculoskeletal problems, suitable foot platforms and handholds should be provided and well maintained on all vehicles". The debate continues?
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#6 Posted : 25 January 2005 13:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eric Burt This sounds odd? Did the HSE mean suitable footplates for riding on whilst the vehicle is in motion, or to assist with climbing in and out of the vehicle? The dangers of riding on moving vehicles is well documented, but I have yet to see the evidence of musculoskeltal problems caused by climbing in and out of vehicles. Besides, the degree of risk is much less anyway: Sore arms/back -v- being killed! Do you have any more evidence from HSE? Cheers Eric
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#7 Posted : 25 January 2005 15:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter MacDonald You could argue that the risk of long term musculoskeletal problems is much higher than that of being killed. Getting in and out of these wagons regularly is physically demanding. Peter
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#8 Posted : 25 January 2005 16:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike Craven The HSE recently consulted on an initiative to improve H&S in Refuse & Recycling. As a local council we made a formal response on issues such as training, supervision/management, contractors, manual handling, operational procedures, transport safety, etc. I produced our formal response after meeting with Refuse & Recycling management and representatives. Whilst our guys generally supported the HSE initiative and were broadly in agreement with the proposals, we had a couple of questions to ask/points to make on one or two operational issues. One question I was asked to ask was about the possible provision of ride-on platforms "coz they have them everywhere else in Europe and in America, Mike". I asked the questions and received a response from HSE. The Principal Inspector oveseeing this initiative said that ride-on platforms had been considered and that HSE and the industry had agreed that they were a definite "no". Mike
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#9 Posted : 25 January 2005 16:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner Thanks for all your replies and especially the comments on the sprain/strain and 'body wear out' factors. The 'body wear out' issues, derived from constantly mounting and demounting high unsuitable RCV cabs, are already coming into play as cab-crews here in N.I are getting older. May the dangerous combination of 'task and finish' with 'ride on steps'never come your professional way.!! Thanks again Aidan
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#10 Posted : 08 February 2005 16:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Trevor Hay Unusually, I thought that it may be useful to add a few comments here. I do not intend to enter into a protracted discussion, but I tender the following comments in the hope of providing assistance. I would request that any subsequent enquiries of HSE take the route outlined on the HSE web pages (i.e. via infoline, your trade association or local HSE inspector. My apologies for asking this - I would be swamped with queries if everyone came to me directly.) I would suggest that the key document you will need to refer to is BSEN 1501-1:1998 Refuse Collection Vehicles and their associated lifting devices - General requirements and safety requirements. Of particular note is the National foreword to this document. (Other EC states may not incorporate this foreword into their EN?) It states that: "The primary concern relates to the inclusion of subclauses 3.20 and 6.6 and the riding on refuse collection vehicles by operatives. Whilst it is understood The (GB) industry considers that there are significant health and safety risks associated with this practice.......For sound health and safety reasons the (GB) industry deems the inclusion of steps into this standard a retrograde move....(the standards in) HSE Guidance note PM52: Safety in the use of Refuse Compaction Vehicles was prepared by the Health and Safety Executive, along with industry representatives, and implemented in 1985. This document was voluntarily adopted by UK manufacturers, specifiers and operators from that date. The practice of operatives riding on the outside of vehicles ceased in the UK over (20) years ago. The accident statistics, though not comprehensive, indicate that deaths have reduced significantly in the intervening period.. The industry considers that this reduction is a direct result of the ban on the practice of riding on the rear of vehicles......" So, briefly, you will find our European colleagues using riding platforms manufactured with certain safeguards as indicated in the standard, but here in GB, we consider these safeguards are not capable of providing a sufficient degree of protection (and sometimes, they can add other risks). Please also note the comment at the bottom of the national foreward in bold type "Compliance with a British Standard does not of itself confer immunity from legal obligations" The Health and Safety Executive strongly supports this comment, as does the trade body, the Environmental Services Association. Certainly among the safety officers of the major British waste management companies I speak to, there is a thorough understanding and support of the HSE stance on this matter, and of the contents of the National Foreword to BSEN 1501-1. One recent fatality would appear to have involved a worker riding on a vehicle using a wing mirror as a handhold and using the vehicle entry step as a 'footplate'. I await confirmation from the courts of the agreed facts of the matter. Forward thinking, progressive manufacturers I have visited are now considering the design and location of wing mirrors to prevent this. Additionally, at least one manufacturer designs his vehicle door so that no step projects outside the cab. I hope that this helps, colleagues? Yours fraternally, and with regards, Trevor Hay, HM Inspector of Health and Safety, Waste Management and Recycling Section. Cardiff
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