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Posted By Adrian Clifton
I am currently trying to obtain information on the possible presence of asbestos in premises we lease. I have contacted the Landlords' Managing Agents to request this information. The reply was that no asbestos survey has been conducted for the site or the buildings. They also state that "this is a matter for employers rather than landlords" to obtain this information.
The building was refurbished prior to us occupying it (2004) and we are not responsible for maintaining the fabric of the building only internals.
My understanding of Reg. 4 of CAWR 2002 is that the duty holders for controlling asbestos within, are those with the responsibility for maintaining or repairing all or part of a property. I believe that this is therefore the landlord.
I should also add that we are not the sole occupants of the building and that there are shared areas (entrance lobby and emergency exits).
Your comments and views on this situation would be most welcome.
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Posted By Ann Guerrini
Hi Adrian,
You will need to check your lease. If you have a full repairing lease then your company will be responsible. It might be an idea to get together with the other occupants and arrange to share the cost of a survey.
You may also find that even if your landord arranged to carry out a survey he would recover the cost back from the tenants i.e. by service charges.
Ann
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Perhaps your legal people should be speaking to their legal people. The simple assertion that CAWR Reg 4 id a duty for employers only is simply not true.
Depending on the nature of you business the HSE/LA Environmental Health might support you - then again, Reg4 came into force last May!
You could 'cover' yourself meantime by adopting the presumptive approach as a management strategy - presume materials are asbestos containing unless there is strong evidence to support the contrary.
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Posted By Stuart Nagle
Adrian.
So far as I am aware the CAWR places duties either on the building owner, where they occupy the premises, and/or the employer or individual employers where a building is in multiple occupation by a number of different employers.
If the premises you lease is occupied by your company and hence company employees are present, It would be my personal opinion that the employer (your company) is responsible for ensuring the health, safety and welfare of your employees, and therefore for undertaking an asbestos survey of those areas occupied by your company employees (e.g. the company premises), excluding communal areas.
It is also my opinion that the premises landlord would be responsible for surveying communal (shared) areas of the building. These would be areas that are generally shared by all companies with premises in the building, such as communal entrances, stairwells, plant rooms (where they service all the premises), and ancillery areas such meter cupboards etc that usually remain in the landlords control, but to which your company may have access (for meter reading etc) by way of a key, along with other leasees in the premises.
In addition, if the premises were leased after the CAWR came into force, I think your company might well be looking to the landlord to explain why he had not had the premises surveyed prior to letting them the premises for business use. There may be further mileage in this argument if your company is trying to avoid the costs of a survey, but this might be for a court to decide... or through mutual agreement between all parties (perhaps wityh costs shared equally ( say on a Sq foot basis of premises occupied)
Regards...
Stuart
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Posted By Heather Aston
Adrian
As Ann has said this depends on the terms of your lease and who has responsibilty for maintenance and repairs. There is no single right answer. Get your legal/contracts people involved - they should have sorted this when you took over the building.
Do it quick because either you or the landlord or both is now in breach of the CAW Regs.
We had various situations - buildings we lease from someone else that we were responsible for surveying, buildings we own and lease out that we were responsible for surveying and buildings we own and lease out where the tenant was responsible for surveying.
Heather
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Posted By ken mosley
I have heard similar comments from landlords and owners of buildings in the past. The whole area of duty holders under CAWR has been a little murky. It was the subject of much discussion during the consultation process. There is, however, one aspect of legislation often overlooked in this debate. The Defective premises act 1972(Civic Government{Scotland} act1992, north of the border), which places a duty on landlords to exercise reasonable care for tenants and others to ensure their safety is not affected by defects in the state of the premises. Asbestos in a deteriorating condition would fall into this category.
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Posted By Tom Clark
I'm very surprised (not) to find that a building which has been refurbished in 2004 doesn't have a detailed Safety File with full details of the works carried out and information on the asbestos situation.
You are responsible for your employees so get together with the other tenants reps explain the situation/responsibilities etc. and have a Type 2 carried out for your own peace of mind. If nobody else wants to be involved look after your own pitch. You could be passing post back and forward to the managing agents for a long time without peace of mind.
The only reason I can think of for the lack of information from the managing agents is - they don't have it.
Good Luck
Tom
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