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Posted By Brett Day
Am working with a client who have employees carying large, heavy, bulky equipment, the load is secured and doesn't overload the vehicle.
The vehicle supplied by the client to the emplyees comes with a space saver spare wheel (sssw), a 'proper' spare wheel is an optional extra.
My concern is that according to the manual when the sssw is fitted both ABS and traction control/stability program is affected and actually recommends turning these off, a great idea but there is no way of doing this. It hints that carrying a full load with these is 'inadvisable' but doesn't go further. The manufacturer is reluctant to expand on this.
My recommendation is that a full size spare wheel is fitted to the vehicles carrying loads near to the vehcles max load.
Has anyone had any experience with sssw and loads or experienced adverse handling whilst driving with these ?
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste
yes to all....the handling is awful above 25 mph, which is why the limit is set at 50kph....e.g. I put the tyre on NSF, as it blew out, and even modest weight, two passengers in my case, and the car refuses to steer, as the normal front wants to 'tramp steer'.
As you can only travel 50Kph on these hair bands, why don't you argue that; 'the incresed travelling time, ie time and money lost, would more than pay for full size spares.
PS: I replaced that vehicle with an newer same type, guess what...no spare at all, just a self seal and fill aerosol! Needless to say I've bought myself a full size spare...
Phil
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Posted By David Brede
I too have had a bad experience with space saver tyres.
On the way back from the RSG event at Newcastle I had a blow out and was forced to switch to the space saver.
This event took place at 5.00pm and the tyre was on by 5.45pm. As I had another 200 miles to go I was not going to do the whole journey on the space saver at 50kph with the attendant loss of good steering and performance.
Fortunately I was able to persuade Kwik Fit in Durham to stay open but another 15 mins later?!!
These tyres are not a good idea and car makers should either provide a standard wheel or the solution proposed by Phil.
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Posted By Adam Jackson
Slightly off-topic, but I'm looking at getting an LPG conversion which will put the tank in the spare wheel well, replacing the wheel with one of those foam aerosol tyre repair things. Has anyone used those sprays to repair a puncture and reinflate a tyre - do they work as well as they are promoted?
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste
Its me again...
yes, I've also had experience of these aerosols....again they are only a temporary measure AND, significantly, will only seal pin, nail, screw, etc, holes AND, only if they are clean and straight...in fact it's best to leave the object in for a good seal.
Slits, splits, tears, are no gos....
Phil
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Posted By Adam Jackson
Okaaay. Given I do around 35,000 miles a year perhaps its best to stick with pumping out the CO2 and keep the proper spare wheel!
Sorry Antarctica, but my spare wheel comes above your ice. :) Besides, won't it be better to have a southern polar region where we can grow grapes?
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste
Adam,
Buy a diesel with a 'cat', on second thoughts, they have to dig up rainforests to find the minerals to put in cats, so its goodbuy ice anyway...
What about electric, ah yes, still burning fossil fuels to generate the electric, its just that they are remote, you can't see it, so you feel better about it...
What about the 'e-office' then you wont need a car!
Forsooth the thread has escaped from Friday!
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Posted By Richard Mathews
The truth is, space saver spare wheels are usually not that at all. They are cash saver spare wheels. It is much cheaper for the manufacturer to put one of these in the spare wheel well than a full sized wheel and tyre, especially if alloys are fitted to the vehicle. My car has one of these and the wheel well is plenty big enough for a full sized spare. As for the aerosol spray repair kits, I have also had experience of these, I have seen them on two occasions where the driver was stood there at the side of his vehicle scratching his head whilst looking at a shredded tyre. They’re about as much use as lead parachute!
Richard
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Posted By Adam Jackson
Strangely enough, the man who was selling the aerosol repair sprays sells those parachutes as well.
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Posted By Diane Thomason
My last car had a "space" saver spare wheel. I had to use it twice - awful, never again.
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Posted By Graham Bullough
When I changed cars last year I unwittingly bought a car with one of these wretched tyres, although fortunately I've not had to use it yet. It would pose a considerable nuisance if I had a tyre problem just before or during a long journey (especially on motorways) and either there isn’t time to hunt for a tyre outlet or it occurs when such outlets are closed.
The car handbook alleges that the smaller diameter and thickness of the tyre is partly to save space in the boot, even though it actually sits in a recess below the level of the boot floor. I did think of getting a real tyre as a spare, but understand that the recess is too small to accommodate one. Thus, if I have to use the space saver spare tyre, I would have to put it elsewhere - which would be really great if the boot was already full.
The handbook also states that the lighter weight of the compact spare helps to improve fuel economy. However, given the relatively small difference in weight between the two types compared to the overall weight of passengers and luggage, etc. I am sceptical about this aspect. Does anyone know what sort of fuel saving, if any, is achieved? Also, does anyone know how many makes and models of cars now have space saver spares?
Another aspect of spare tyres, whether space savers or not, is that in most cars they are stored in boot floor recesses. Thus, if you need the spare, you have to unload the boot - which takes time, especially if you are carrying lots of luggage, and is even more of a delight during bad weather or at night. My previous car was a Volvo which had some good design features including the fact that the (real) spare tyre plus jack and brace rested horizontally to one side within the engine compartment. I only needed to use the spare once, but was very glad I could get at it quickly and directly just by opening the bonnet. Do other makes and models of car have their spares in the engine compartment or other convenient places compared to those in boot recesses?
If I ever get on BBC's "Room 101" I will insist that car designers get sent down for the lousy designs they inflict on us. Is there any way in which motorists can influence car designers and manufacturers - who tend to copy each other e.g. with their nasty space saver spare wheels - or are we just doomed to have to put up with their designs?
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Posted By Richard Mathews
I have just been speaking to a friend who has just taken delivery of an Audi. It came with a space saver spare in a full sized compartment. He refused to hand over the cheque and take delivery until he was provided (free of charge) with a full sized spare on a matching alloy wheel, it worked. So yes Graham we can influence designers and manufacturers by not putting up with it and refusing to accept what we don't want.
Richard
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Posted By Adam Jackson
This a complete coincidence, but shortly after making the above posts yesterday I picked up my new car and guess what - its got one of those useless space-saver spare wheels slung underneath it. As the wheel is on a bracket under the car rather than in a well in the boot it can't be swapped for a 'real' wheel. Gutted :(
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Posted By Graham Bullough
Glad to hear from Richard Mathews about his friend successfully insisting on getting the space saver tyre in his new car replaced by a real one - it was fortunate that the car had a full size compartment.
Sorry to hear from Adam Jackson about the space saver tyre for his new car being located on a bracket underneath the car. I thought this type of location had been abandoned by manufacturers because the spares were vulnerable to theft and exposed to crud and moisture from the road. However, a space saver spare is probably less vulnerable to theft.
Another common flaw with most car designs nowadays is that the lower window lines tend to rise up towards the backs of cars so that drivers have difficulty seeing behind while reversing. Thus, various gadgets such as proximity detectors and special lenses are now sold to try to tackle a problem which could have been simply avoided in the first place with better design. This begs the question - Are car makers responding to their customers wishes by making cars with backward rising window lines or simply inflicting their designs on customers?
Brett, sorry if this last paragraph comprises a deviation from your thread, so I'd better add the comment that it's not just cars that pose problems through inadequate design. Too many machines for use at work are designed with insufficient thought for those who have to operate or maintain them. Thus, whenever we as H & S practitioners encounter any machines and equipment at work, it's always worthwhile asking the users and maintainers what they think and whether the designs could be improved. If this led to designers and makers getting sufficient numbers of comments and complaints, there would be a better prospect of them improving their products for the benefit of employers, users and maintainers alike, especially if information about inadequate design was shared and publicised. Makers don't like effective adverse publicity!
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Posted By Brett Day
Thank you all for your responses, they've been very usefull, the client has now got the lease company to spec 'proper' spare wheels.
Graham I understand exactly where you are coming from on the design of things, I was once told by an architect "I design things that look pretty and win awards, I leave health and safety to you guys".
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Posted By Renny Thomson
In true risk assessment mode;
Have you ever assessed how often you actually need to use the spare wheel? If I recall correctly statistics show that on average punctures occur only every 5 years. If drivers regularly check tyres, many of the small nails and other items that cause punctures can be visually detected and safely repaired before serious pressure loss occurs resulting in the need to use the spare.
Have you considered the manual handling aspects of changing a wheel by the side of a road? Especially where you have to unload the cargo to access the spare wheel.
Have the drivers been trained to change the wheel safely? How many times have you seen people changing the wheel in totally unsafe locations (including the right-hand lane of a motorway,just about as unsafe as the hard shoulder!). Much better, in my opinion to drive on the probably already irrepairably damaged tyre to a safe place before you attempt to change it.
Will the driver be able to torque the wheel nuts up accurately? Will the spare be at the correct pressure?
In my opinion, why not consider setting up a contract with a national tyre company, that provides a 24hr service (unlike Quick-F*t) and use these "experts" to provide the service?
I know this may be a controversial response, but in my background in the transport industry, most trucks do not carry spare wheels and rely on specialsts to provide the service. That, coupled with drivers trained to look after their vehicles, carry out the essentail daily and weekly checks that most drivers simply ignore, will have a more significant affect on the risks that just specifying a full size wheel to replace a space saver.
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste
Renny,
1 puncture every five years! This transport industry your in, it's not the Army is it, with bullet proof and run flat tyres? Or better still tracks!
Surely a better statistical analogy would be punctures per miles....Even then, I don't travel half as much as I used to and still accumulate a large proportion of tyre eating detritus.
The last incident also buckled my wheel and knocked the tracking out. Luckily I've kept in with the lads from my 'old trade' so the bill was a third the 'retail quote' of £348, plus discount! Ahh those were the days!
Not having a dig but it is Friday!!!!
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