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#1 Posted : 16 February 2005 09:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By ian mcnally I gave up trying to think of humorous title to generate (no pun) a response to a problem reported to me. I have had complaints that staff in our “IT” department have been suffering from static shocks. The problem is localised to one department, the earthing of equipment has been checked and is fine. I am aware of possible causes, such as equipment / body generated / humidity and ionised air issues. My main problem is working out the best way forward to tackle the problem and not a knee jerk short term fix, such as anti-static carpet treatment, although views of how effective this may have been for anyone having used it would be useful too. I would really appreciate some advice from anyone out there that has experienced and managed a similar problem. I would also welcome a contact from any company that can provide products such as anti-static carpet treatment – ionisers – humidifiers or any other solutions. Thanks Ian
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#2 Posted : 16 February 2005 09:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nick Egan I have heard (could have been here) of someone using a weak solution of fabric softener sprayed onto carpets to cure static. Maybe thats your solutuion! Nick
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#3 Posted : 16 February 2005 10:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robin B Grounding mats?
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#4 Posted : 16 February 2005 11:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze A new carpet made from natural fibres? Antistatic shoes? I too had heared about the fabric conditioner solution and it was on this website so a search might reveal it. Question - how often would the fabric conditioner need to be reapplied?
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#5 Posted : 16 February 2005 12:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter You say earthing is OK, but has installation been checked by competent electrician? It is conceivable that there is some low level earth leakage being generated by equipment. The more items you bond to earth,the greater the potential (sorry) to contact the leakage current. Depending on the age of the consumer unit and installation there may be nothing in the way of RCD or RCBO to detect this fault.
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#6 Posted : 16 February 2005 13:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Randall Hi :) Please bear in mind that your staff can be generating the static electricity themselves, wearing fleeces etc so therefore they may be the source and the correctly earthed equipment is just dfoing what it is supposed to do. One way round this would be to earth the staff to prevent build up of charge and obviously this would prove disastrous if they came into contact with a live supply and would most likely prove fatal. With this in mind carpet treatment, anti-static shoes and staff not wearing man made fibres should prevent this from occuring.
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#7 Posted : 17 February 2005 16:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Randall As an afterthought there used to be a device advertised in computer supplies magazines that was designed to safely discharge static by the operator touching it.
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#8 Posted : 22 February 2005 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By ian mcnally Thanks for all your input. The electrical installation was in fact checked by a competent electrical company only recently. An interesting development is that three people have emailed me separately about an extremely cost effective solution ( cheap as chips) Fabric conditioner! I have seen this suggested on the web, but wasn’t sure if it would be a complete waste of time which may not do the safety department any favours. I have now bitten the bullet and discussed it with our office manager who will arrange for the carpets to be cleaned and at the same time apply diluted fabric conditioner. Bit early for an April fool number I hope! It will be most interesting to see if this improves the situation and I will feedback. If it doesn’t. At least it won’t have wasted more than about £20 and a bit of loss of face to find out. We may then look into buying a bespoke product which is about five times the cost. I would welcome any brand names that have worked for you. I have suggested the other options with the “IT departmental manager” such as assessing type of clothing worn by one or two that seem to suffer more than others from static shocks, rubber mats, antistatic shoes, humidifiers and ionisers. We will be starting off with the fabric conditioner method (love to know how this might work? ) we will then evaluate and consider if we need to introduce a series of controls to solve the problem. Thanks again Ian
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#9 Posted : 22 February 2005 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul J Williams I have come across this a few times and the cause is usually due to the atmosphere being too dry ie low relative humidity. I suggest you check the relative humidity and if it is low take steps to increase it. Other symptoms of this can be what appear to be insect bites around ankles, neckline and cuffs. This is actually starically charged shards of paper which stick in the skin. Where this has occurred and been misdiagnbosed as fleas, spraying water based insectorcides has resolved the problem temporaily probably inadvertenlty due to the act of spraying water on the carpet which has also raised the relative humidity. Hope this helps.
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#10 Posted : 22 February 2005 14:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kate Graham Conditioner makes perfect sense chemically - the conditioner molecules are long ones which are charged on one end (which sticks to the fibres where the static charge would like to be) and non-polar (oily) on the rest of the length (which sticks out) - so charge doesn't build up on the outside when the fibres have been coated with conditioner. That's also why conditioners make clothes soft and keep hair untangled - it's like a lubricating coating of oil stuck to the fibres.
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#11 Posted : 22 February 2005 14:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By ian mcnally Hi Kate, I must say it all sounds perfectly logical, but then I suspect you could have given me just about any old physics or chemistry based theory and I would have believed you. Thanks though, at least if somebody asks me I will be able to tell them it’s all to do with the non-polar molecular structure and having greasy hair ..or something. Seriously though Kate, it is interesting to hear why such a crazy sounding solution might just work. Suspect a few producers of branded antistatic solution will be a miffed if they read this! It was Lenor you said you worked for wasn’t it! Regards Ian
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#12 Posted : 22 February 2005 14:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kate Graham Well as far as I know proprietary anti-statics are usually cationic surfactants (meaning positive charge on one end, the rest non-polar), and they work following exactly the same principle as conditioners - they have just been formulated with anti-static performance rather than softening etc in mind.
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#13 Posted : 22 February 2005 15:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sharon We are also experiencing problems with static electricity. An open plan office with at least 60 people in it but only 2 suffering from static electricity. One temp solution is to place you hand on a wall before touching metal cupboards or filing cabinets, it works! We purchased an anti static mat which works whilst sat at desk but once your on the move the static builds back up again. Certain pot plants help too. We are in the process of carrying out an Air Quality test in that area this week. Also trying the diluted fabric conditioner test this week too, we are going to spray the area twice a week, results should be interesting!
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#14 Posted : 22 February 2005 15:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By ian mcnally Think I may have stumbled on something here, better rush out and buy up any local stocks of fabric conditioner just in case. Sharon do you think twice a week might be a bit OTT. Perhaps if you have a SERIOUS static problem, you could think of a way of harnessing all that excess power to run the office lighting, bet Kate could help out here! Best of luck Ian
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#15 Posted : 28 February 2005 19:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham S Dawson Please call Graham Dawson at Arrowquint to discuss a solution. 01242 604 555
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#16 Posted : 28 February 2005 19:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham S Dawson Good idea. Unfortunately static won't run things - thats why its called static!!
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#17 Posted : 09 March 2005 11:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Vivian Dry environments are the most problematic for static as insulation levels of carpets etc are very high so there are less opportunities to discharge any built up static to ground. Correct grounding of electrical equipment is essential for electrical safety but actually exaggerates the problem as a "charged up" employee will discharge rapidly to an earthed piece of equipment whereas touching a wall, pot plant (mentioned earlier) facilitates a more gradual discharge to ground through the resistance of the wall/plant/etc. Increasing the humidity will help as this reduces the insulation levels of carpets etc allowing gradual leakage of static charge to ground. The presence of pot plants will introduce increased localised humidity (assuming you water them!) I am not so keen on the fabric conditioner ideas as the net result could be a slippery carpet that gives you a whole load of other problems to deal with. However simply shampooing the carpet will leave residual moisture content in the carpet for a while that may well alleviate your problems for a good few months. In static sensitive workplaces (for example semiconductor factories, electronics maintenance workshops), metal items that do not require a low impedance electrical ground for safety (e.g. metal workbenches, filing cabinets, etc) are connected to the ground via a high value resistor (typically 1 megaohm 1/2W) to allow a gradual discharge to ground of any static charge. Specialist ESD companies exist that can help with this and could provide static discharge mats at critical areas in your building. Richard Vivian
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#18 Posted : 09 March 2005 22:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Marc Miles have experienced this, put it down to chairs used and excessive travel on industrial type carpet. maybe your IT lot are spending time playing daft games up and down whilst in their chairs.........
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#19 Posted : 10 March 2005 10:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul J Williams Just take Richard's word (yesterdays post) and my word (22/2/05) for it, the problem is due to the atmosphere being too dry.
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#20 Posted : 11 March 2005 09:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke I've just had an e-mail from Sigma-Aldrich. They manufacture anti-static coats which contain carbon woven into the fabric which safely dissipates static charge. Worth considering along with the other solutions.
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#21 Posted : 11 March 2005 12:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Melanie Black We had been experiencing similar problems in one of our offices, with people complaining of itchy legs and getting small electric shocks. After reading this thread I tried the fabric conditioner idea, and, touch wood, it seems to have worked! I used a cap full of fabric conditioner (blue Lenor to be exact!!) and diluted with water in a spray bottle (49p from a local garden centre). I didn't drench the carpet with it, but just sprayed lightly over problem areas. A really cheap solution which not only resolved the static problem, but made the office smell lovely in to the bargain!!! I'd recommend people try it as it is so inexpensive. It might not work in every situation, but for the sake of £1.50 I'd give it a go.
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#22 Posted : 14 March 2005 20:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham S Dawson We usually find that a combination of desk mats and touch pads work very well. The advantage is that only those affected need to have mats or use touch pads. Also, there are no actual or potential medical, allergenic or safety implications with these items, whilst they are easily portable if those affected mopve offices or departments. Finally, they are all low-cost.
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