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#1 Posted : 02 March 2005 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By CU Hi all I work on a site which has a number of fabrication sheds. The roofs of the sheds are made on concrete corrigated asbestos sheeting. Due to the weather damage of late and age, sections of the the roof have collapsed into the sheds. On this happening we have immediately informed the duty holders of the site (owner), and they have sent in an asbestos contractor to remove the debri. As the damage is now done we are now on a daily basis finding small sections of roof in the sheds. which the duty owner is removing immediately. We had a survey carrie out 2 years ago, which highlighted all asbestos on site. But this damage was not done then. We have risk assessed all the areas on site, but they are 2 years old. We keep personnel away from the debri when present. As replacing the roof is not an option as cost would close the site. Spraying the damaged sheets would not be practical as when we had more damage they would just expose more fibres.ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO PROTECT OURWORKERS. What more can we do, should the risk assessments be reviewed, do we need to get a new survey carried out. I have all the info off the HSE. Which states that we dont not a licenced contractor to pick up the debri, but we do need special waste to remove of site. Is this type of asbestos low risk as many claim. Any thoughts would be most welcome.
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#2 Posted : 02 March 2005 15:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Birchall It would be prudent to carry out some air monitoring. Have you heard of the accepted process of "remote demolition"? Although I totally disagree, this is a method approved by the HSE. It involves totally saturating the surface area of the material (if that's possible!) and the ground area that the debris will fall into. The debtris is pushed into a pile and constantly soaked and taken off as special waste. Air monitoring is carried out by a UKAS laboratory. If the pumps are set on for about an hour then by the time the analysis is carried out the building is demolished! So what's the point? Hence why I disagre totally.
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#3 Posted : 02 March 2005 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter MacDonald Tony Remote demolition as you call it is not in itself a bad idea. This method should only used when the dangers associated with removal of the sheets whole (for example working at height on a damaged/unstable roof from a MEWP or scaffold) outweighs the very low risk associated with chrysotile fibre release from dense asbestos cement. We've carried out large scale removal of industrial sheds in this fashion that took well over two or three days, never mind one hour. Background and personnel monitoring by an independent third party analyst confirmed we did not exceed any action levels. Falls from height are a real danger, chrysotile asbestos cement is (comparitively) barely a hazard. Peter
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#4 Posted : 02 March 2005 21:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Myth, You do not need a licence to work with asbestos cement! The likelyhood of fibre release is very very low unless you are angle grinding and chucking it up in the air! Air monitor outside, yeah right! that was a waste of money then!
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#5 Posted : 15 March 2005 12:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Cameron You say that 'on a daily basis' you are finding small sections of roof inside your sheds! Surely if your roof is this unstable you should worry about the risk of your workers being injured by falling material, prior to worrying about the risk from asbestos!
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#6 Posted : 15 March 2005 19:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB Dave, could you explain your posting? As far as I am aware you don't need licensed contractors to remove and dispose of asbestos cement, it is low risk (especially outside) and even the HSE say the biggest risk is falling through it. Unless of course you know better - and I'm always willing to listen to an expert. Geoff
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#7 Posted : 15 March 2005 20:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Geoff what do you mean? You dont need a licence to do this. Would you undertake airmonitoring outside when removing asbestos cement dont think so as you can quite safely say that you will not exceed the action or control limits etc!
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#8 Posted : 16 March 2005 08:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Longworth One thing is certain, despite the tone of some of the replies, there are no experts posting on this subject today. I don't claim to be one either but the factory where I work is made entirely of asbestos cement so I have a small amount of experience. You do not need a licence to remove small amounts of the stuff but you do need to operate in a safe way. Things like wetting down, double bagging, correct RPE (properly fitted and tested), properly trained staff etc Air monitoring wouldn't be much use in the open air unfortunately Hope this helps
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#9 Posted : 16 March 2005 09:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By David J Jones My thoughts are to re-assess the risks as CU states the original risk assessments are two years old - surely the first step to be taken in any event. I agree with other postings referring to "experts", they don't come cheap but surely the cost of a consultation in re-assessing the risks would come under the caveat of reasonably practicable. At the end of the day, no matter how benign, or otherwise, white asbestos is thought to be, the duty of care cannot be ignored David
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#10 Posted : 16 March 2005 09:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chas Whilst working with asbestos cement may be a non licensable activity, CAW 2002 still applies to the exercise. (You should always remember the Regs 10 and 15). The material must also go to a licensed tip via a licensed carrier. With regard to the airtesting question, my view is that it is the only way you can actively demonstrate that the air quality is actually within the control limits and action levels. In short it can be used to allay peoples/staff fears whilst works are in progress, (ie a PR exercise).
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#11 Posted : 16 March 2005 10:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Talbot Hi, Firstly I am not an expert in asebestos. I am however, more than qualified to tell you that your risk assessment should have been reviewed the very first time you saw / heard of damage. Do it now, and do it with an asbestos expert and fabrics man at your shoulder. I agree with others that looking for debris is not ideal if the roof is now fragile. Make the area a no-go until you are happy that the appropriate safeguards are in place.
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#12 Posted : 16 March 2005 16:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By ken mosley Thought I would belatedly join the debate for the craic. A few points worth considering. Asbestos/cement sheeting typically contains 10 to 12% chrysotile (white). The vast majority of asbestos/cement sheeting contains the white although a small minority contain amosite(brown) and crocidolite(blue), your survey will tell you which yours contains. If the sheets contain white, the fibres because of their serpentine nature ie. soft, curly & sticky are not as hazardous as their amphibolic cousins ie. long, straight & sharp. Remember that when the twin towers came down on 9/11 there were 40 tonnes of white asbestos released and you've not heard a great commotion from OSHA. The other thing to remember is that you do not need a licensed contractor to "dismantle" asbestos/cement sheets but as others have pointed out you need a licensed carrier to take it away to a licensed tip. Your biggest problem seems to be lumps of the stuff that may fall on some poor sod. The roof is in a poor state and someone needs to bite the bullet and have it reroofed. If they need persuading show them a copy of the 'Defective Premises Act 1972'
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#13 Posted : 16 March 2005 20:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul E Reynolds It all well and good saying that you do not reqire a licence to remove asbestos cement sheets, but please ask your insurance company if you are covered to carry out this work, i very much doubt it.
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#14 Posted : 17 March 2005 10:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By ken mosley Regarding asbestos/cement sheeting removal and the concerns raised by Paul on insurance. We held meetings two years ago with our EL, PL and contract works insurers. We explained our policy and procedures for the removal of the offending material and they are quite happy. What was surprising though was the amount of ignorance of the insurance industry on asbestos related matters. We also explained similar issues on asbestos vinyl tiles, asbestos paper and Artex, all of which they were completely ignorant.
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