Posted By chrys r martin yet another example of the nanny state ethos: - can you imagine the furore if a driver was seen to be on the pavement ? but absolutely no comments about pedestrians loitering on the carriageway! its always the motorists fault no matter what the problem

Posted By Fearghal Cunningham Speaking as an ex-smoker (the worst) for me the biggest hazard of smoking when driving is if you accidently drop the cigarette (it can get caught on dry lips), then there is the subsequent panic of trying not to burn your lap, car, suit, etc .... somehow driving with due care would appear to become a distant second. Since smoking does not really stand up to any risk assessment (I am Irish so do find it easier to live with a workplace smoking ban ... which at least would say goodbye to the smoking policeman). So personally I would ban smoking while driving - already over here if it is your workplace!! And for that last thought ... though as a smoker who is not allowed smoke ... could my increased stress and irritation make me a bigger risk on the road ... in the short-term and then I become a happy ex-smoker(?)

Posted By Ian Lumsden I would like to see someone from the government post a response, if they are brave enough. Ian L

Posted By Ron Hunter I feel that there is a great danger in this whole "hazardous activity whilst driving" thing being taken too far. A question to all drivers: What do you think about whilst you are driving your car, minute by minute/or second by second - is it driving, or are you to some depth or degree thinking about other things? Is that a bad thing or a good thing? What about Satnav, ear splitting "In Car Entertainment" sytems, an engrossing radio show, being lost, being upset, looking out for that right or left turn, etc. etc. etc.? OK I may have 2 hands on the wheel, but where is my mind focussed?

Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste I smoke, therefore I am! I ramble so I will...witter that is, not walk Yes smoking is bad for you, even worse if you are supposed to be concentrating on the road, pavements, dirt tracks schools etc. But so are a lot of other things.... I remeber a study carried out in the mid '80's which concluded that: 'loud music makes you drive fast', they qualified this by conducting tests with the Cult and some wet person from the era...Rick Askley or something...guess what, they're right, I think, never listened to Rick intentionally loud or soft! no I don't do it in the car, or for that matter in the house....nothing to do with anything other than my daughter's health and wellbeing. Hey, cars are dangerous lets ban them also Having said that, I do agree, but where do you draw the line? Phil (Devils Advocate) B

Posted By Aidan Toner Mobile Phones------Cigarettes. It's not just about the physical fidgiting with the particular item is it...With repect to phones are we not supposed to take account of the distraction factor caused by conversations with persons not in the vehicle.????? Smokers will of course have conversations with their cigarettes which are most definitely in the vehicle -The cigarette says you need me,I will stay true to you onto death,(it says so on the packet) how can you get by without me.-The smoker says I dont really need you,I can give up anytime,smoking makes me sexy.I can still afford you financially.My clothes dont smell and my breath is not like a badgers undercarriage. The sad thing is the driver still has this conversation with cigarettes long after he has got out of the motor.How safe is any addict.!! Ps_Just finished the smoking cessation advisors course.Good stuff.

Posted By Aidan Toner To my new friend Phil .Congrats you are in the first stage of addiction recognition-YOU ENJOY IT. and you enjoy life.The trick now is to fully assimilate both pieces of info. All the best in your quest.

Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste Aiden, I am comfortable with all aspects of my life.... except my job! More like a peacekeeper in a major conflict...nice way of saying WAR... than an advisor I am fully assimilated, or at least my rollies are...2 parts old holburn or amber leaf, 0.5 cherry, 0.5 vanilla AHHHH vanilla, ice cream, pizza, guinness.... Philby

Posted By John Webster If I was still smoking, I would say "Bring back the front quarterlight", which to all the youngsters amongst us was that little triangular window they used to put in the front doors before they found out it was cheaper to use a single large pane of glass. It was perfectly designed for the fag smoking driver. Next to the knuckles of a properly positioned grip on the wheel, it effectively drew out the curling smoke from the burning tip, and with a slight flick, the ash followed it - no need to look, you knew it worked. And if the tip came loose, it went as well. No burning end in the lap to distract. The finished fag never came back and could safely sail away into the path of a following motorcyclist or open top sportscar. Fortunately, by giving up, I don't have to choose between trying to find the ashtray and stubbing out the fag in the CD tray, or getting the embers blown back down my collar trying to put it out of the window. On a serious note, the existing laws on driving without due care and attention should be sufficient to cater for all situations where a driver is not in full control. This includes using the mobile phone, where the legislation ought to have been unnecessary and was probably more of a political vote winner. What is actually needed are clear and consistent guidelines adopted by all Police forces, which allow an appropriate degree of flexibility according to road and traffic conditions. That is what the law indended. That is what the word DUE means in this context.

Posted By Stuart Nagle I think the serious question is exactly how many times do you take your (one hand or both!!) off the wheel whilst driving.... Let me count the ways.... Sitting in traffice jam: (today for instance in 4 inches of wet white stuff...) Hands cold... put in lap (several times) Long que, took car out of gear as leg was aching holding down clutch!! (each time stopped after few feet of forward movement) Using windscreen wipers (often) Indicating to turn (very often) Radio (switch on) once before actually moving off (engine running) Hand signals to other drivers (impolite) several times Hand signals to other drivers (polite) several times Smoking in car (it was a four ciggy run due to snow and slow moving traffic - many times wheel to mouth both whilst stationary and moving) Adjust seat belt a bit (a few times) as it got uncomfortable whilst sitting in traffic lokked at mobile message on hands free phone, but needed to press button whilst phone in cradle (twice) Scatched chin (several times) Opened/closed window (electric) by pressing button (several times) Both hands off (in frustration at driver in front) once (whilst stationary....oyyy vey!!) All in all today quite a few times..... Accidents today NIL.... loss of control of vehicle today NIL..... Police witnessed at least several incidents of hand off wheel whilst stationary (as police cars to/from motorway division passing and behind whilst stuck in traffic.... Police actions NIL.... Did not eat apple, sweets, pastries, drink coffee, do hair (don't wear make up), read map, put on/take off tie, adjust/do up/undo clothing or otherwise do any anything totally stupid - apart from smoking that is!! se la vie) I have wittnessed (many times) the following; hair and make up being done at traffice lights and in slow moving traffic... Looking in shop windows, leaning across to passenger and pointing (at whatever attracted them in the shop window) whilst moving in traffic in town.... People still using mobile phones (regularly) particularly HGV drivers on motorways (the supposedly professional drivers!!) HGV drivers and others map reading on motorways and other roads whilst in moving traffic.... HGV drivers and others reading newspapers... Drivers eating and drinking (from mugs) whilst moving in traffic.... Drivers rwaching over the seats to a child in the back (and looking back) whilst moving in traffic... Males talking to and looking at females (for quite long periods) whilst in moving traffic...The last one I saw gradually veered and went up the kerb!!...how embarasing for the poor chap!! Drivers removing coats, jumpers etc whilst moving in traffic.... We all do it I suppose, but it is only when we have an accident whilst doing it that injury/damage occurs. I think most people don;t realise just how much damage their car, lorry, van or 4x4 etc can do in an accident, even at relatively low speed, but then again, I think some police enforcement is unwarranted... but hey, motorists are an easy target are they not? Stuart

Posted By John Mackessack Could've been worse. Could've been arguing in braille.

Posted By Martin Mulholland Ian Lumsden Do you see anything wrong with your comment "unfortunately smokers do get away with it as the majority of people that set the law do smoke" ?

Posted By Rob T I think we should encourage more smoking as it is a supremely enjoyable habit which is very relaxing indeed (at least 12,000,000 smokers in the UK presumably agree). A complete elixir, particularly that first one in the morning. Nothing like that beautiful surge of nicotine hitting the brain. We should definitely bring back TV advertising as the adverts were by far and large the most entertaining. Go on give it a try. They say you shouldn't knock something without trying it. And for those of you who have given up - your auto responses suggest that the absence of nicotine over a period of time creates an imbalance of mind and a tendency towards psychotic behaviour.

Posted By Robert (Rod) Douglas The law is an Ass, I read the paper yesterday and a Guy that killed a child whilst driving without due care and attention was sentenced to 2 months in prison. Jermaine Penant a footballer was jailed for three months for driving whilst banned, were the justice? Penant deserved his three months stint at HM Pleasure however two months for taking a life, or am I that I missing the point... Yours Aye, Rod D

Posted By jackw. Isn’t life a series of co-incidences.. driving into my office this morning. at one of the many roundabouts aongl comes a car, male driver. balancing: smoking a cigarette, using a mobile, changing gear and steering the car….. I stopped and let him get around. Yep life is full of co-incidences.. so long as the guy going around the roundabout doesn’t kill you !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By Rob T simon, It's not the arrogance of smokers - it's the bigoted small-mindedness of interferingbusy-bodyingdogoodinglipsmackingthirstquenchingblahblahblah non-smokers who think that they have the right to insult, deride and snipe continually at anyone who carries out a legitimate legal past-time that doesn't agree with their own view. You weren't at a recent fancy-dress party with Prince Harry were you? It's about time this site stopped debating the smoking issue unless there is a specific legal point to be made. The arguments are getting extremely boring!

Posted By Ralph Baqar Thanks for all your replies, all of which were interesting. It is a shame that many of you could not see beyond the physical aspect of holding a cigarette whilst driving – this was far removed from the point I was making, although I did refer to it. I was hoping for some serious debate with respect to using a carcinogenic mind altering legitimate drug whilst driving on a public road. One of the things that interested myself was that the reform in relation to mobiles was achieved by using data that highlighted the sub-conscious distraction of up to several minutes by the user. This was the impetus for government in changing the law; this thread was not about smokers. How do we feel about people taking prescriptive drugs whilst driving? Can we gauge this as the same as pressing a button on a console – I personally doubt it. Yes, smoking is generally deemed to be bad for you, again this was not the point. It’s hard to believe that some of you people out their class yourselves as occupational health and safety professionals.

Posted By Rob T Ralph, It's hard to believe that there are people out their (sic) that are so arrogant that they think that they have the only point of view! Those who think that nicotine is a mind-bending drug which can affect driving on a mental basis are plainly on some form of mind-bending drug themselves. It's this total ban everything mentality that gives H&S Advisors a bad name and that which Jeremy Clarkson thrives on. It's our job to manage risks not ban anything that can potentially cause harm. I'm quite happy for people to disagree with my view and call me whatever names you like but don't cast aspersions as to my H&S competency. Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot banned everything they didn't agree with!

Posted By Rob T Caffeine is a mind altering drug. Do you want to ban the drinking of coffee before driving? (oh and don't eat red smarties either). Foot in mouth! Nah, I've never said that smoking is good for you - I'm just living on this planet and in a country that still allows freedom of choice. You say that you listened to peoples views - I'd suggest that you only heard the comments that agreed with your narrow misconceptions and disregarded anyone with a different aspect! That's not debate! Enough said - let's just get on with helping people who ask for our advice on subjects where we may be able to enhance the real safety issues.

Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste Now then chaps....specifically Ralph and Rob... I think most people got the gist of the posting and most did respond with valid and objective thoughts....what has become clear though is that debate seams to equate with dictatorship.... I answered honestly, I agree that any distraction posses safety issues, I didn't even mind the specifics of the argument, smoking. But then I also said that I don't smoke whilst driving for my daughters health, inhalation, and safety, crashing! Not just when my daughters with me, but I would like to see her after work also! Ralph you did appear to have a specific go at smokers...there are many distractions built into and brought into vehicles, from dvd players and satelite navigation to hair dryers, I kid you not, and coffee/coke/tea... How far we go and where we stop? should have been the direction of the debate. Plastics and sealants degrade and give off noxious fumes in sunlight, does that mean we will have to drive at night....what about us with deteriating contrast vision....I'll have to get an all metal car with bull bars! As for the mind altering bit, I'm begining to think the proffessions doing that already, so a little more won't make that much difference. Philby