Posted By philip jones never mind the smoking, what about people who never have a crash, but have caused 23 of them? I was on my way to work last week with a leasurly jaunt doing the required 90mph on the country lanes near to where i live, when someone pulled out in front of me, forcing me to swerve. It was then that i dropped the mobile phone which was glued to my left ear, whilst talking to my boss about not using mobiles in the car without a hands free kit installed, in my haste to catch it i lost the page of the map i was looking at for my meeting, and the doughnut i was chomping on fell from my mouth, into the cup of redhot coffee between my legs scalding big bad bob and the twins!! Just a thought! Phil

Posted By Ken Taylor I find it interesting that, whilst many health and safety professionals would not argue that the existence of other (and perhaps greater) hazard to personal safety is good reason not to address or seek to reduce or eliminate another identified risk under consideration, they are prepared to do so when it comes to excusing a hazard to both health and safety in which they themselves engage. It must be desirable to seek a reduction in factors that adversely affect personal performance in operating plant or machinery upon which the lives of others depends but problems arise in both identification and acceptability. Whilst many performance-affecting drugs are difficult to readily detect without testing employees, this strategy has been adopted for some occupations where lives are clearly at risk and tends to be generally acceptable in those cases. Smoking is, of course, far more easy to identify - but acceptability of control is clearly difficult. Smoking non-legal performance-affecting drugs whilst operating such plant and machinery would probably be generally unacceptable for reasons other than illegality but not entirely so, at present, with tobacco - where acceptability has been clouded by addiction and social issues.

Posted By Jason Touraine Ralph, you said 'Should it not be a specific offence to smoke tobacco whilst driving? Smoking effects the brain within seconds of inhalation. It contains nicotine, which is an addictive substance, a drug. Nicotine effects the body and mind by altering blood pressure, and supplying a sense of relief, relaxation. Then, after stimulation is gone, withdrawal symptoms cause cravings for another dosage.' You get a few responses you don’t like and then start calling into question peoples professionalism despite the fact you were trying ‘to generate others points of view’. You tell us what nicotine can do ‘ to the mind and body’ but cite no evidence that it has an effect on driving. I think your silly knee jerk reaction to adverse comments perhaps shows you are really trying to find another angle to have a go at smokers. (For example what relevance has it being carcinogenic got to do with your hypothesis about its adverse effect on driving? (I think that particular outcome takes longer than a car journey to manifest yourself!). Yet you mention it twice (Fact: - It is also a potential carcinogen.) Perhaps counting smoking drivers ‘whilst in the obligatory traffic chaos’ is a greater risk. You might find a fag would help you relax! PS I don't mind you having a go at smoking - I don't like it either - but I do object to you being irrational.

Posted By Sean Fraser Yet again we have a full blown discussion on a motoring issue that has generally failed to understand the point. We would not need to ban anything if we all understood the dangers involved in what we do and act accordingly. Surely that was the point behind the concept "risk assessment". And has been pointed out right at the beginning of this thread, if smoking was subjected to an HONEST risk assessment, then people wouldn't do it. But they do - why? I don't smoke for a number of reasons, but top of the list is health. As an advanced driver, I don't do a number of things while driving. Why? Because I know that I need to concentrate on the task in hand all the time, and I need to be able to react effectively at any point during my journey. I do my risk assessment when I get in the vehicle and before I start off, each and every time. How many of you do that? Point is - While driving, everything you do that distracts you from the task in hand (manoeuvering a piece of lethal machinery from one point to another) make you less safe, it is only a matter of degree. The fact is, if everyone applied this level of conscious thought to this particular activity you wouldn't need legal intervention. Meanwhile, back in the real world, people don't, and so the law feels it must. That is also why we still need a prosecuting HSE as well as an advisory HSE.

Posted By Sean Fraser John, IAM.

Posted By jackw. Driving to work this morning. Nursing/enduring a 10 day old cold. I spent most of the time, sneezing, coughing, blowing my nose, searching around for yet an other tissue.. hmm seems like I was distracted a lot.. Is ok by me if you outlaw colds.. or should that be driving with a cold?. Could form part of a new health policy.. ban colds, flu, asthma, heart attacks, stomach pains, cramp, et al.. just in case they happen whilst driving and cause a distraction Ps yes also ban smoking…. pps Think of what I have just saved the health trusts.. one magic sweep of my pen..ok keyboard.. think i should get a fat cat bonus!!!!!

Posted By Martin Mulholland Here's a contentious issue: Mobile phone ban gets introduced via Legislation. UK industry make multi-millions through the sale of car phone accessories. Now im not saying that there is a direct relationship at work here but there are often economic benefits to UK PLC when Legislation is introduced. Im sure there are others who can cite similar cases?

Posted By Martin Mulholland Ralph Maybe it's just a coincidence?? marty

Posted By Ken Taylor So you'd rather abolish cars and loose your job than give up smoking, Alan! That is dedication!

Posted By Ralph Baqar Alan (re; bigger picture), rather than abolishing cars why not have cars that can drive themselves? It may sound a little far fetched however; it is possible with the technology that we presently have – who knows what the future will bring?

Posted By Ralph Baqar Bet Bill Gates is already working on ythe softwear!