Posted By TBC Does the CITB run a course before and then a test at the end or is it all just walk in and take the test? Is it 'vote for joe' response i.e. choice of four answers - three totally wrong and one right?

Posted By GeoffB A couple of years ago one of the CITB people attended an IOSH conference to explain the workings behind all this. Unfortunately the lady was not for turning - despite a number of delegates tearing the system (or mainly the pathetic questions) to pieces. The impression I got is that it is take it or leave it. So far I have refused to take it but it is becoming more difficult to ignore - especially when principles hit pocket.

Posted By Tony O'Keefe Mike, Not wating to rubbish all the work that the CITB do, I am in agreement with you to some extent so far as. 1. This may well be suited for construction workers that are carrying out the work. 2. There is a great need for managers on construction sites to have an awareness of health and safety related issues, ( though I personally believe that this test does not go far enough) a higher degree of formal training would be more benificial. 3. Why is there a need for safety professionals with recognised qualifications to undertake this test, when in the whole the test subject matter is their bread and butter, would not a handful of diplomas, degrees or other prove their competence. Tony

Posted By Mike Craven There have been a number of threads on this subject - mainly supporting the views and criticisms put forward by Tony. We also discussed this item at the Lancashire Forum of Local Authorities Safety & Health Advisers (FLASHA) meeting a few days ago. I have never taken the test although, like others, I do accept that I may need to do so in the not too distant future, and have made some enquiries. I have heard about the questions that one gets asked and have downloaded some sample questions - they are available on the CITB/CSCS site if anyone wants to have a look. My view - being favourable to CSCS - is that any formal training and assessment, regardless of how basic it might appear to us experienced/educated/qualified safety professionals, is probably better than nothing. If the choice is between allowing anyone onto a construction site or requiring them to pass a simple safety awareness test first, then I would go for the test every time. HOWEVER, I don't believe that the problem is about requiring "operatives" or construction managers to show some basic level of common-sense. Its about experienced/competent Safety Professionals being required to take a test which - if what I have seen, read and heard so far is anything to go by - insults our intelligence and makes a mockery of our personal training, education, qualifications and CPD activity. CSCS - and its' not just CITB incidentally, the scheme is supported by others including GMB and UCATT from the trade unions side - needs to look at exemptions. If you have gained the NEBOSH Construction Certificate recently, you are exempt from taking the test. But having a diploma, corporate membership of IOSH (and others), and being RSP with several years of CPD activity appears to count for nothing. I wouldn't mind is someone said, "listen Mike, you've never been on a building site on your life, you will have to read the site rules, have your PPE checked out, receive some info on the significant hazards and/or be accompanied on your first visit to my premises". Seems much more sensible than give us your 40 quid, answer a few simple multiple-choice questions, get a pass and hey, mind how you go lad!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike

Posted By GeoffB Pete Pete - I am an RSP and have the construction certificate - but I have it on the best authority that I have to take the test to get the card. Mike Dwyer has declared an interest, made his statement and attracted comments. Yet I'll be surprised if he comes back to answer them. There is no justification for treating professional safety advisors/consultants in this way - our qualifications more than match anything the CITB, CSCS can come up with and credit should be given for them. Geoff

Posted By Mike Craven Here's one for the CSCS card critics! (my previous posting on this thread outlines my own views) Decided to put in for the manager's test in order to apply for a CSCS card - just in case I ever need one in the future. Paid £17.50 for the test fee and a tenner for the book of questions and answers. Have to admit that I got two questions wrong when I tested myself, although I will claim that my excuse for that was that I was going too quickly through the book because, as some people have already said, to the experienced safety professional many of the questions are too easy and an insult to our intelligence, qualifications and professional standing. (Gosh, doesn't that sound pompous - sorry about that folks - I must be in a bad mood!) Anyway, I went to the test centre with my ID and appointment letter, which appeared to be very good - told me exactly what ID was required and acceptable (photo and signature), where the test centre was, how to get there, to arrive 15 minutes before the tests, and what to do when I got there. Arrived at the test centre at 4.10pm for my test at 4.30. Directions were excellent. Went to admin block A as instructed, with a view to pressing button 3 (as instructed) and going into the centre. But, what's happening??? There's a guy, (clearly a construction type of chap, holding a letter similar to my own) questionning the person on the other end of the intercom. The CITB have moved, they are no longer here, they moved out today lock stock and barrell, there is no forwarding address!!! My fellow would-be test-taker shrugged and walked off. I rang the CITB on my mobile. Gave my registration number, name, address, etc, Yes, I was booked to take the test at 4.30 on Monday 04 April in Stockport, and yes, we did move out today - the new venue is the XXX Hotel in XXX. the response I got was that, If you can get there by 4.30, you will be able to take the test, otherwise you will need to send us a copy of your letter to prove that we have brought you to the wrong place and we will give you another test date!!!!!! Forget the expense and inconvenience I had incurred!! As my car was parked about 10 minutes walk away, I had no idea where the hotel in question was, (although I knew that I would not be able to get to the area/district in question in rush hour traffic by 4.30), and because I didn't have any money for a taxi fare on me, I gave up and went home!!!! Mike

Posted By Chris Black I can echo the sentiments of people who have had to change venue, I sent two colleagues to the venue in Haddington for testing, guess what? The venue had changed, only one of them was able to find the new venue (they had separate appointments) and CITB want proof that they sent us a bum-steer. Only one question comes to mind, what the hell is going on?

Posted By Robert S Woods I scored 39 out of 40. The problem being I let reality and practical knowlegew interfere with the eutopian vision of things. Q (not verbatim but near enough) Your mate gets a forign body in his eye do you: a) lick the corner of your hanky and get it out? b) get someone to fetch a first aider? c) take him to the first aid point. I said c) (lapse of concentration) based on the thinking re: b) what are the chances of them coming back in the next ten minutes. What are the chances of him bringing some sterile eye wash. If I took him then at least the water would be a vailable.

Posted By Anthony Slinger On my travels recently, I was give an “information pack” from a scaffolding company that included insurance, H&S policy, employee certificates of competency, etc. Included was a letter to scaffolding operative from the CITB saying “Congratulations! You have passed the CITB CISR health and safety test…. etc” It went on “The topics listed below are the areas in which you answered incorrectly and which you may want to review: Fire prevention, working with electricity, working at height and scaffolding!!! I don’t know if the company followed this up, (I supposed he passed, so why should they and if he went to another scaffolding firm they would be unaware of the specific theory topic weaknesses.) but it does not instil any confidence in me.

Posted By Peter MacDonald The test is a joke. You learn what you need to pass and unless you have problems with memory retention or are less than intelligent you pass. It's not a test of knowlegde, it's a short term memory test. I doubt if the vast majority of people who sat and passed the test were taken off a site and retested without a revision period they would pass again. Can someone explain to me how the effectiveness of this test is measured. Have construction accident frequency rates improved since it's inception, and can that improvement be linked to the test. So what if a few thousand people failed the test. If the job you're in reflects your abilities and academic acheivements it's hardly likely that certain personnel in the industry (such as labourers, or pipe laggers) will pass the test (or even use a computer). And don't forget the large amount of people who's first language is not english working in the industry. Is the minimum gap between handrails 450mm, 500mm, 610mm, all of the above? Who cares? What is the benefit of that short term knowledge? I care that it's put up correctly by a competent contractor, not that the guy mixing mortar on site new the answer for a week. It's a sheepdipping, money making, superficial waste of time. A marketing tool for the industry impressing no-one but themselves. Go on, test a few of your staff, no cheating!!. Let me know how you get on.