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Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,
Just been on an environemental management course, and a couple of delegates there happened to mention a problem they've got since Halon has been withdrawn. How do you extinguish a burning person? One of the people is ex-Police H&S, so obviously was a very important issue for him, and I suspect it will be for other people in similar fields. He wasn't aware of any really effective alternative; does anybody have any bright ideas?
John
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Posted By Tony Overbury
John
I've always been taught to roll a burning person tightly in material (in order to extinguish the fire by excluding air). I guess that a handy fire blanket or carpet would be best but I suspect that you'd grab whatever was at hand (coat, curtains etc) if you ever had the misfortune to be confronted with this situation.
Tony Overbury
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Posted By Gordon Thelwell
From a purely light hearted perspective I guess it depends on two things:
1) Do you like the person?
2) How much have you drank just prior to the Conflagration incident?
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
Best of luck!
Gordon.
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Posted By GeoffB
Hi John
I don't understand the significance of Halon and putting people out - why wouldn't a water extinguisher do?
You hit them on the head with it so they lie still, and then spray water over them.
Geoff
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Posted By Karen Todd
Getting them to the ground to roll them might be another matter. I've been told by someone who ended up on fire that he had to first be caught (he was running about screaming) and then be rugby tackled to the ground...
I know of someone else who ended up on fire who ran to his house (still on fire) from his shed to tell his wife the shed was on fire!!!
Karen
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Posted By Laurie
I agree with everybody!
Ideally you roll the fire out, and if urine is the only extinguishant you have then you must use it, particularly if there are a group of you - to put it bluntly a single supply of urine is unlikely to extinguish any fire which can't be beaten out with the hands i.e. one which is consuming a body, and what's with Halon?
Laurie
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Posted By Merv Newman
My response to this one has been the same for many years - put the flames out any way you can and then COOL the person down. Start with a blanket if you have to if there is no immediate source of water, then throw buckets of water over them. If you leave it on too long the person starts to cook. Really, really, really best is never to use a blanket, just a hose pipe or aforesaid buckets of water. Same treatment for any kind of burn - chemical or thermic - lots and lots and lots of water.
Ladies and gentlemen (which covers most of them) (you can see I have edited my first comments) who work in areas where chemical splashes are a significant risk should agree, in advance that, in the case of a serious "splash" they will take off ALL of their clothes while under the cold shower.
Retaining ones undergarments can lead to significant impairment of function in affected areas. ie it really, really smarts (do you really want to keep an acid contaminated garment close to your privates ? Gerrof yer barmy)
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Posted By J Knight
It's all about context; the situation is somebody in, say, a riot being set on fire by a disgruntled member of the public. Rolling them on the ground in this situation is quite difficult, and I understand that the beauty of halon is that small but very effective extinguishers are possible, and it will also deal with say a petrol bomb. Water (and urine) won't put petrol out, CO2 would freeze them to death, and powder would choke them. Rolling them on the ground would require the cooperation of a mob,
John
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Posted By stuart cross
John,
Watch the video of the Bradford City Fire....Lots of people...one burning badly.
A fire fighter friend of mine many years ago said the answer was to cover, drop and roll!
Personally I agree with Merv lots and lots of water to cool the person down.
Regards
Stuart
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Posted By Terry Smyth
The prefered method for extinguishing a persons clothing is without doubt to roll them tightly in a blanket and roll them, thus starving the fire of oxygen. This will extinguish any type of fire, regardles how it is fuelled.
As a firefighter with 26 years experience I am horrified to find that halons have been considered in this scenario, due to the toxicity in post fire conditions, whereby the halon produced concentrations of hydrobromic, hydrofloric and hydrocholoric acid fumes in such concentrations as may be lethal.
In the early part of the troubles here in N. Ireland two service men lost their lives when their vehicle was petrol bombed, they were trapped, the cause of death was in fact due to halons , a 1.5 kg halon extinguisher used in a confined space.
Please stick to water, powder, foam as an alternative to halons or Co2 (There are some halons still out there)
In any event such concerns should be identified by the RA of the work activity.
I hope this helps
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Posted By J Knight
Yes, well, the problem is still to do with the specific scenario, and as I nderstand it the porability of halon extinguishers. Don't get me wrong, Im not particulalrly advocating the use of halons, having never done an RA for a riot and never being likely to do one. Blankets are big and bulky, and not easily carried into this kind of situation; Halon extinguishers are small, and the context they were discussed in is in the open air, not in confined spaces. The man who raised this was H&S advisor for a police force, in the kind of situations he was talking about he didn't believe there to be a good alternative. Interesting discussion, though,
John
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