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Posted By Joe
Is there anyone out there who is using the Doorguard system and has already devised a procedure for use, testing etc (preferably been approved by their local Fire Safety Officer) and doesn't mind sharing?
I am specifficaly interested in their use in a residential setting but would welcome any information.
Thank you in anticipation!
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Joe,
We use Dorgard in a number of residential homes for people with neurological conditions and hospices. I haven't got access to any of the documents we use as they are drawn up locally in response to local conditions. However, I can tell you that they are reliable and fairly low maintenance. Older models did have reliability & robustness problems, but these seem to have been resolved. They all get tested as a matter of course as part of the weekly fire alarm tests, and they are subjected to an inspection at alarm test time by the local handyman. I think they're fine, but check them out with your local fire officer before installation as technically they do not meet the requirements of HTM85/86 which require automatic closers to be attached to the fire alarm system. HTM85/86 were written before reliable effective acoustic door closers were developed, and we are quite happy to assume that they meet the standard in spirit,
John
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Posted By Nigel Hammond
I work in an organisation that supports people with learning disibilities in a number of different counties. In some of the homes, we provide dorgards (Spelt wrong deliberately - it's a trade name).
Some fire brigades are funny about them. I have found that Buckingham fire brigade are anti- dorgards and will not allow them in kitchens or other 'high risk areas'.
I believe cheshire are cautious about them as well. Hertfordshire refuse to give any advice at all - just tell you to do your risk assessments - even when you tell them you have and want further advice! Leicester seem to accept them. It's about time the brigades became consistent!
The only negative aspect of dorgards seem to be;
1. They can get knocked by wheel chairs
2. They may take up to thirty seconds to react to the alarm sound
3. They need regular maintenance.
In our fire procedures we have weekly, monthly, 6 monthly and yearly checks. These include the following requirements for Dorgards;
Weekly; Dorgards working?
Monthly; Dorgards checked and cleaned according to manufacturer's instructions
6 monthly; 6 monthly service carried out according to manufacturers instuctions
Yearly; Battery changed.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I can remember a previous question on these - which you may be able to find. They rely upon the adequacy of the fire alarm sounder, can be damaged or dislodged by wheelchairs and trolleys and can prevent some doors from opening sufficiently. I would prefer magnetic holders connected directly to the alarm system - unless there is a good reason to the contrary.
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Posted By patrick o brien
We (Cheshire Ireland) have recently been in discussion with a local Fire Safety Officer with regard to the installation of Dorgard devices. He requested that the devices be tested for their ability to operate in all proposed locations when the alarm was activated. Otherwise he was satisfied about thier use with the exception of some 'high risk' area doors i.e. kitchen, sitting room.
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Posted By Messy
Why all the fuss about Kitchen doors & dorgards and magnetic door holders - MDHs?
Yes I accept that there will be a delay in the operation of the AFD and thereby the dorgard/MDH due to the use of heat (rather than smoke) detectors in kitchens, but if the alternative is that kitchen staff wedge the door open & they will!), surely a dorgard or MDH is the best option.
So is it me, or are the Brigades who oppose this being a bit too anal for their (& our) own good??
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Posted By Nigel Hammond
I agree with your comment 'Messy' whole-heartedly. I have had these kind of arguments with the brigade and they recently backed down regarding one of our kitchens - as long as we provided a risk assessment to justify the Magnetic door release.
I find the problem with magnetic door releasers is they cost several £100 or sometimes £1000s to install - whereas you can buy a dorgard for about 50 quid and fit it yourself.
If magnetic door releasers are much better than dorgards then it would seem money well spent. However, any difference in the effectiveness of the two devices seems a bit speculative to me. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
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Posted By Joe
Nigel,
Would be interested in knowing where you can get these devices for £50, as a short term solution we need to buy a number of these and had secured a price of just under £100 (Supply and Fit) which I thought was not too bad!
Joe
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Posted By Ian Laber
I am sure that I first saw these at the IOSH Training Centre.
I have used them in commercial and in private residential proerties with no problem.
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Posted By J Knight
Firecode HTM84, 85 & 86 do not require kitchen doors to be held closed, and do allow fire hazard rooms and access to stairways to be fitted with automatic door closers; they do say that closers should be 'linked into an L1 alarm and detection system'. The latter statement would appear to rule dorgard out as an option on fire hazard rooms, though we do use them where fitting a wired in closer would not be an option (listed buildings, awkward doorways etc). Situation in Ireland could be quite different though,
John
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Posted By Messy
I suppose it depends on how you define the term 'linked'. (or is there a definition in BS5839 or HTM docs?)
Whilst the dorgard aint linked physically by wiring, neither is a detector, panel or sounder on a wireless AFD system.
One is 'linked' via radio signals, the other acoustically.
Is there a dorgard type device which is radio operated (by the AFD system) and if not - why??
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Posted By Alan F Cox
One problem that no one has yet raised is the potential damage that can happen to the door by the fitting of these devices. If you have a closer fitted to the head of the door it is constantly exerting a closing force to the top of the door - when you then use a Doorguard or Wedge the door is subjected to opposing forces which can cause the door to warp which may then require replacement - if you balance this cost with a properly fitted magnetic hold open device linked to the fire alarm it may not then appear to be a "cheap option". There is also potential for damage to the closing device.
Alan F Cox
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