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#1 Posted : 12 April 2005 09:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bev The company I now work for has a risk rating system with 5 categories. The severity rating makes a certain amount of sense, but the risk rating is as follows: 1. Highly unlikely 2. Unlikely 3. More likely than not 4. Quite likely 5. Almost certain I find 3 and 4 particularly difficult to distinguish between. I've only used rating systems with three or four categories before, but if I change this system to 4, then I will need to alter all of the generic risk assessments, as the ratings will obviously reach a different figure. Has anyone got a rating system which uses 5 or more categories, and if so, could you please let me know what they are and how sensible you think the distinctions are?! I'm looking for something simple that non H&S people will understand. Many thanks.
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#2 Posted : 12 April 2005 10:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nigel Thomas Bev I use a similar system does this make it more clear for you? Unlikely 1 Possible 2 Likely 3 Probable 4 Certain 5
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#3 Posted : 12 April 2005 10:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By NeilM Poyznts-Powell Hi Bev, 1. very unlikely 2. unlikely 3. may happen 4. likely 5. very likely 6. certain. I've sent you a copy of the matrix i'm working on 9based on Croner's). Hope it helps. Regards, Neil
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#4 Posted : 12 April 2005 10:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philip McAleenan Bev, Bev, beware of risk rating systems. No matter of how unlikely a possible event, the rating system will not tell you when it will occur. The most unlikliest of events could occur this afternoon, and again tomorrow morning. If there is an outcome that you do not want under any circumstances, ensure you control you work operation so as to ensure that it will not happen at all, i.e. no risk. Every work operation must be safe before you start, Regards, Philip
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#5 Posted : 12 April 2005 11:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I think a risk scale which is easier to understand is one based on frequency of exposure : 1 = never or rare (once per year) 2 = 1 to 5 exposures per working week 3 = 1 to 8 exposures per working day 4 = more than once per working hour but not permanent 5 = permanent exposure The question then is "Do my existing control measures reduce the seriousness of the probable injury to level 0 or 1 ?"
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#6 Posted : 12 April 2005 11:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Baynes Our systems use: 5 - frequent/likely to occur/expected to occur 4 - probable/ not surprising/ might occur often 3 - possible/ could occur sometime 2 - remote/ unlikely though conceivable 1 - unlikely/ improbable to occur
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#7 Posted : 12 April 2005 12:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bev Thanks everyone - you've been really helpful!
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#8 Posted : 12 April 2005 14:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Petrie it's usually best if you put actual examples of frequency on then e.g. every day-week every every month every year every 10 years every 100 years, that way people can interpret them correctly and it also has the advantage that everyone is using the same basis for their risk assessments. With your current system you may have many different views of what 'quite likely' means therefore risk assessments carried out by different people will be different.
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#9 Posted : 12 April 2005 14:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Victoria Kieran Yes this is a difficult one a lot of it is rather subjective, however we graded it with six categories and these were as follows, hope this helps... 0 = Almost impossible, so unlikely that probability is close to zero, 1 = Extremly unlikely - remote probability that event could occur, 2 = Unikely, unlikely though conceivable, 3 = Likely, Probable, occurence could happen, 4 = Very Likely, almost certain to occur/occurence expected 5 = Extremly likely, event only to be expected, no doubt. The main factor is how you train and communicate to personnel on-site (ie risk assessors and the Managers) so they understand, some scenarios pertinent to your business may help the peices to fall into place. Good luck.
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#10 Posted : 12 April 2005 22:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Craythorne Bev, I use a system of exposure x likelihood x consequence on a 1 to 5 scale. Likelihood and consequence are fairly subjective but it is possible to be more objective with exposure and this enables a better determination of likelihood. It also helps if you have underpinning guidance on what constitutes a 1 or 2 or 3 etc. in each category. Regards, Paul Craythorne
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#11 Posted : 12 April 2005 22:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Fleming · Certain (common occurrence) · Likely (Frequent occurrence) · Probable · Possible · Unlikely (Remote but possible) · Extremely unlikely (Improbable)
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#12 Posted : 13 April 2005 08:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke Hi, In the local authority where I work we use a risk matrix system based on the following likelihood and severity scales: Likelihood Scale Likely/Frequent = 10 Occurs repeatedly, event only to be expected Probable = 8 Not surprising, will occur several times Possible = 4 Could occur sometimes Remote = 4 Unlikely though conceivable Improbable = 2 So unlikely that prbability is close to zero Severity Scale Fatality = 10 Major injury/ill health = 8 Over 3 day injury/ill health = 6 Minor injury/ill health = 4 Damage = 2 Multiplying the two together gives a priority for action from very high 80+ to low up to 40
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#13 Posted : 13 April 2005 09:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Bennett I have used a system that gives a percentage risk. Probability 1-5 as used before Severity 1-5 as before Add together the probability and severity and multiply by 10 give a percentage risk. Example Probability 3 Severity 2 (3+2=5)x 10 Gives a 50% or medium risk. It looks more logical for the layman
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#14 Posted : 13 April 2005 10:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Jones We have found a 5 point system difficult and use a 3 point system for "probability" 3 points- Very likely (occurs frequently) 2 points- Possible (occurs sometimes) 3 points -Remote (Unlikely to occur) This system minimise the need for subjective judgement and is easy to base on factual evidence. Anything more complex and you can spend too much time over the rating and away from resolving the problem. The above probability categories are linked to "Consequence" and "person at risk"where we rate as follows: Consequence 50 points - fatal 3 points - reportable injury 2 points Minor lost time 1 point minor injury Person at risk 3 points- many (over 3) 2 points- few (2-3 persons) 1 point - one person We multiply "probabilty" "person at risk" and "conseqence" scores together to give us a RISK RATING Over 50 Serious risk and the activity must stop 9 -50 High risk 4-8 Medium risk 1-3 Low risk This system gives us a numerical system on which we can make descisions about priorities and measure improvement Hope this helps and is not too confusing Mike Jones Univar Ltd
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#15 Posted : 13 April 2005 12:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner I,M having a bad maths day. MICHAEL, I like your system but I,m assuming you meant to say Remote= 1 point and NOT 3 points. I ran a few quick risk situations with your system and I liked it. IAN, when I look at your sum I revert back to 3X2=6 out of a potential 25 which does'nd get me to an overall 50% risk level.?? All comments made by a notoriously bad maths student.!!
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#16 Posted : 13 April 2005 13:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Jones Sorry you are right The confusion appears to be the setup of this box which changes when the response is posted, so my alignment went haywire
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#17 Posted : 13 April 2005 20:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Terry ap Hywel Hi Bev All the replies on this topic illustrate what an area of confusion this is. One of the major problems highlighted by this thread is what do the ratings actually mean for likelihood, severity, frequency - or any other numbers you want to multiply (or add). Unless it is clearly defined within your system what a "very likely" rating actually means it is "very likely" that every person doing the rating exercise will have a different view. Is it really useful to say that "very likely" will occur regularly or almost certain to occur or might occur once a year - does this help in arriving at a rating? I often have students carrying out a rating exercise assessing the likelihood of a hazard causing an accident as "very unlikely" because they have never heard of any accidents caused by that risk. Luckily most people have had very few, if any, experiences of fatal or serious accidents in their workplace so will generally tend to underestimate likelihood if the system is based on this sort of approach. What is the value of risk rating? I find a lot of managers massage the figures to suit whatever system they have. If they have to get below a certain figure they will. The purpose of the exercise is (as Phillip McAleenan said in his reply) to ensure that risks are controlled so I would suggest that, if you are going to carry out risk rating, likelihood should be rated on the basis of the control measures used (or planned) e.g. If no control measures have been provided then it is "Certain" that sooner or later an accident will occur. If the only control measures depend on the worker to use them, such as PPE, then it is "very likely". If the control measures are engineering measures (e.g. a fixed guard), and a maintenance system has been set up, training provided, regular inspection regime, etc. then the rating can be "very unlikely" If you decide on control measures that reduce the risk at source - e.g. low voltage tools - then the severity or consequences side of the equation could be reduced from "death" to "minor injury" If you would like a fuller list contact me directly. Best wishes Terry
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