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#1 Posted : 17 April 2005 19:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi (possibly to all you X MOD types) Are there any Regulations/Guidance Notes etc governing the specifics of teaching civilians bush craft techniques. I am enquiring about the whole package including specifically the slaughter part of the training? If you then took the package overseas - to the jungle - what further implications are there? Regards Linda
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#2 Posted : 17 April 2005 20:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brett Day Linda Why not try : http://www.raymears.com/index.cfm He is involved with the Woodlore School of Wilderness Bushcraft they should have a good idea. As ex MOD not sure about regulations or guidance for civilians we were taken up into Wales, thrown out of the back of a truck and told to get on with it whilst avoiding being caught by a bunch of squaddies whose main motivation was the first squad to make a grab was a case of beer and a ride back to warm dry barracks !
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#3 Posted : 18 April 2005 13:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste Sorry Linda but I've got to ask.... WHY? its not one of those awful management team building things is it?
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#4 Posted : 18 April 2005 13:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Linda, I am watching this one with interest, because I am at a loss as to how one is expected to apply H&S legislation, Regulations & Guidance to a SURVIVAL situation. Section 3 duties of HASWA would of course apply (but then it is also good business practice to ensure your customers survive). I am wondering if the HSE Guidance following the Glenridding Beck Tragedy could be applied? See: http://www.hse.gov.uk/schooltrips/ Also various outdoor organisations may have a take on the situation, check out the British Mountaineering Council on: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/ I wait to see how this one develops...
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#5 Posted : 18 April 2005 14:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By robert daily me too phil? Why?! i have to ask why. Bushcrasft is survival techniques and survival at all cost's. Dont see where the H/S aspect would come into it?
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#6 Posted : 18 April 2005 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jez Corfield Linda, To put it bluntly, no, there are no regulations or guidelines that cover this. Like all similar activities it is subject to regular H&S legislation, unless it was being done in Khazakstan. Key points: Policy, arrangements and written instructions for DS staff, covering emergencies, weather, communication and competencies. Risk assessment to cover salient points, such as environmental factors, STF's, cuts, burns, food poisoning, MSD's, unnattended medical conditions etc. Briefing and training for individuals to cover safety procedures, practical demonstration of techniques, equipment used, emergency procedures etc. Equipment provision - to include PPE, communications and necessary 'survival' and emergency equipment. Monitor the activity - somebody competent needs to oversee and supervise the activity, and inervene if required. The list goes on and on - The MOD have safety information available which may prove useful. Beware - there is legislation regarding the environment and animal welfare you should be aware of. If this is for an outward bound type activity, you need to come at this from two angles, the competencies of those involved (may be suited to ex-mod types) but will also need the full range of 'safety management' skills - call me cynical, but a 'damaged' executive might see the potential for litigation in this, so systems would need to be particularly robust. Jez
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#7 Posted : 18 April 2005 19:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Linda. Any civilian activity will be cossetted in regulations, as normal, and I expect you are well aware of those. Outward bound type activitied for untrained (and possibly unfit) personnel carry other liabilities, personal injury being probably the highest, as recent cases of outdoor activities on school trips etc has shown. Environmetal health practitioners would have a keen interest in any food arrangements, live or otherwise, for courses offering catering (self slaugthered animals in particular) and arrangements for ensuring that food was cooked properly for persons attending!!!! In real life, unless your going to supply caged animals, most civies stand more chance of being struck by lighting than actually catching anything, so relying on catching anything is not to be relied upon....if you follow my drift, or you're all in danger of starving to death..... (adequate stock of mars bars and other nutty required...) There are now several excellent books on the subject and a web search will illicit what is available to order from your local library for free info. If all else fails there are 'other' contacts you could try for advice..... Going overseas....No.... Not untill you are really proficient in the nice cosy UK climes first. Regards.... Stuart
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#8 Posted : 19 April 2005 15:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Hi Linda, Its not just animal welfare and food hygiene. Most wildlife (indeed, in the case of birds, almost all) is protected by the Countryside & Rights of Way Act in this country, and stautes exist even in countries having 'jungle'. Animals which can be hunted usually require either a permit or the express permission of the landholder or both. Somebody (it may have been Ray Mears) probably did break CROW during the filming of a TV series, and there was some discussion of making a legal complaint, John
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#9 Posted : 19 April 2005 16:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi Thanks for all your input. No we aren't thinking of doing a survival weekend! Thank God. This is a typical example of how you catch up with old mates (ex army envrionment) and how the social "hellos" inevitable deteriorate into the most interesting subject we all know... H&S! Whilst you have all pointed out valid references (some of which I was unaware) and thankyou. It still would seem that an X MOD "bushman" deems himself (or herself) competent (and they may well be) to deliver this kind of training to civilians - whilst there is no 3rd party to approve or regulate who can/cannot do this. Is this a correct finding? Regards Linda
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#10 Posted : 19 April 2005 16:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze I guess that's about right Linda. It's not exactly a well regulated area (unless you count Scout badges?) By definition it's guys like Ray Mears who have learned it themselves or people who have been through the military. The former will tend not to be moderated (exams in folk medicine and foraging - I don't think so!) The latter may well be moderated but as they tend to learn from the former, it all falls down at that point. So that leaves CV's & word of mouth I guess. PS now's the time of year that Hawthorn leaves are at their best to eat. Pick the newly opened buds to make a slightly bitter flavoured salad. Garnish with dandelion leaves - tasty! Locals round by us call it bread'n'cheese.
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