Posted By Rob Malcolm I have recently been the victim of abusive & aggressive behaviour by another member of staff while conducting my tasks as company H&S Officer. I received very little support from the company Operations Director who hinted strongly that my approach was questionable and the way I conduct myself was extremely bureaucratic. He also said I needed to be more systematic. Uh I’m confused. I’m no words worth but telling me I’m bureaucratic then saying be systematic WHAT ! The person who was aggressive towards me has done so to a number of staff members and has never received as much as a verbal warning (nor did he on this occasion). He even told the Operations Director to F off in a stand up meeting of over 40 staff members only recently. Has anyone ever been in this situation where you feel abandoned by the men at the top and have any good advice for me? Many thanks Rob

Posted By Richard Chalkley Rob, Sorry to hear of the situation that you find yourself in. The previous post is correct - this must be challenged and if you have to go higher then do. Staff must see that the management buy into H&S as an integral part of how they do business. If they do not portray that image then we land up being undermined with the result that we loose the teeth to much of anything apart from be the face of respectability. As to the accusation of bureaucratic behaviour on your part, I am afraid that as a profession we are all guilty of that sometimes and occasionally a bit of pragmatism goes a long way. Please don't let the bullies get a toehold. Best wishes, Richard.

Posted By Laurie It doesn't matter what your approach or methodology is - it is not up to this individual to point out your shortcomings, particularly in an abusive and aggressive manner. This is bullying, pure and simple, and must be dealt with by your HR department in the appropriate manner Laurie

Posted By Rob Malcolm Thanks to one & all for your responses of support and advice. I'm pleased to say that over a dozen members of staff came out in support for me today by voicing their opinion to their department manager. The manager took their comments to this chaps manager who had no option but to ask he and the operations director to discuss the matter at length. I have since had the chap come to my office of his own accord and apologise humbly telling me that he can't help himself sometimes. We are all aware that this is not the first time it has happened with him, I doubt it will be the last. Not for a second can I blame myself nor do I question my ability to perform my tasks. The chap has received a verbal warning (got off lightly I say). Just for the record on what happened that day. I was discussing an issue with another member of staff who holds a NEBOSH certificate. This chap interupted the conversation making insulting remarks to me and numerous comments about H&S. The final straw was when he called me a little F in C. (I'm only 5 foot 3inchs) so I was personnally offended by that one. the guy with the NEBOSH cert told me later that day that the chap had already had a go at him about H&S that morning. he's so easily wound up by anything, change, religion, politics you name it and he's had an argument with someone at work about it. I think the Ops Director has set himself a presedence now though. Everyone's been saying that it's official you can call the Ops director a little F in C and get away with. Thanks again to all Rob

Posted By Adam I have also been in this position, the senior manager seemed unable to deal with the person, he just shut his door and pretended nothing had happened. You cannot walk away from this one, even if you have no support from the Director in question. Go to the HR department and inform them of the sums involved in workplace bullying cases and how it is frowned upon by Industrial Tribunerals. Dont let it get you down, a lot of managers are bullies, normally the most incompetent ones!

Posted By Thomas Woods I'm a 6'3 and 18 stone ex Para. Would you like me to come round and sort this out once and for all? I know that people say that violence is not the answer, I can tell you that in some instances it is. Tom

Posted By Ron Young Now I know why so many of us ex military chappies get involved in H&S. Makes you feel safe dunnit...

Posted By Heather Aston Rob Thanks for posting the details. As you said before, this chap was 100% out of order in this case. Apologies if you took my previous post as casting any aspersions on your ability or professionalism - it was not intended to do so in any way. We've all had to deal with bullies like this - some are worse than others. I think you have dealt with this exactly the right way and I'm glad to hear you have had so much support from colleagues at work. If it happens again then as others have suggested you should keep a careful record of what this individual says and does and report him to HR or up your own management chain as you feel appropriate. Bullies can't be allowed to get away with this type of behaviour jst because they're at work. Good luck Heather

Posted By Rob Malcolm Thanks again to everyone for your support. There has been more developements since I last spoke. If you're up for it then grab a quick cuppa, put your feet up and sit back for 5 or 10. I posted an email to the Ops Director today ~ it went a little like this: Just to put you in the picture, chappy (as we know him) has come forward and apologized wholeheartedly for his abusive and aggressive attitude toward me last Friday 15th April 05. I have accepted his apology and thanked him for doing so. He took full responsibility for this and informed me that he has reacted in the past with other staff members in a similar manner and knows he can't help himself sometimes. He then assured me that it would not happen again. I rely on his word that this will be the case for the future. I then wen't on to say.... Having said all this, the company has a responsibility to investigate into all matters of violent conduct be it "Any incident in which an employee is abused, threatened or assaulted which arises as a direct consequence of the employee's work activities be it verbally or physically". I then mentioned the legal jargin.... We are obliged under the Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974 & the Management of Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1999 to perform a Risk Assessment when a form of violence has been identified in the workplace. As last Fridays incident was not the first time that chappy has conducted himself in this way I strongly advise that the MD is informed of the matter at the soonest possible opportunity. It will be my obligation to advise him on the way forward with this issue if he so requests it of me. I will then provide him with recommendations to prevent reoccurrence. I will strongly recommend to him that we introduce a stress/violence/whatever policy, so as to afford protection towards not only he but all department managers and relevant staff members. I would be grateful if you could address this issue with urgency bla bla bla. Many thanks Rob Malcolm Health & Safety Officer/Advisor TechSP He contacted me back and ordered me to see him right away. He then sat me down and told me the old esops fable about the sun & the wind in a contest with one another trying to take the cloak from a mans shoulders...Um I said, yes, enchanting i thought but WHAT! He said I need to consider this every morning before work. Stop being bureaucratic and be more persuasive. He considered my email to be bureaucratic. I said I was only covering myself if nothing else (rather be a bureaucrat than totally incompetent I thought). The MD has a right to know about this sort of thing afterall ! "You don't answer to him you answer to me" he then said. "No I don't I answer to the MD". "No you don't, you answer to me". This is getting a little he said she said isnt it. Cut a long story short he said he would clarify this with the MD. (I mentioned Vicarious Liability) and he said "there you go again, just a total bureaucrat" He said he would apologise if I was right and that if I was wrong he would right out my terms and conditions with regards to my contract again. Oh, and if I didn't like it then I may need to consider another job someplace else that does health and safety the Rob Malcolm way. Just to finish it off he told me that he hadn't in fact given chappy a verbal warning after all & said he would consider it for next time. "Next time"! I tought, WOW! so he's happy for a next time then. Thanks to everyone for contacting me. Its nice to know Thomas & Robert are on our side. Oh and please don't think that I did take it the wrong way Heather, as I didn't, you weren't aware of all the facts. One last thing, thanks to my NEBOSH Dip 2 lecturer, Bryan for reminding me to keep taking the pills. P.s. I think I left them in class on Monday last.

Posted By Rob Malcolm Pete, I fear you could be right ~ but, watch this space. I have arranged to see the MD tomorrow, this could get interesting yet. Rob

Posted By Paul L Williams Hi, A few people have mentioned that it will be interesting to hear what the MD says about this incident. However after some of the previous posting from an ex Para and A Scots Guard I and wondering if MD means "Managing Director" or "Ministry of Defence" :-) Cheers Paul

Posted By Heather Aston Rob I'm sorry to hear it's turned out like this. I can't believe "chappy" hasn't even had a verbal warning! I do know that some managers react badly to any attempt to quote safety legislation at them and it's something I always try to avoid unless specifically asked for it - it can sound a bit officious. Regardless of that, I'm afraid your Ops Dir sounds like the old-fashioned "manage by seat of the pants - we don't need H&S, it just gets in the way" type of manager. I have certainly come across that before, but not recently - and not in my company thank God. Depending on how it goes with the MD, I would concentrate on getting your Dip2 and getting out of there to somewhere that has a 21st century management attitiude. Good luck Heather

Posted By Roger the Dodger Start a personal injury claim against the company. Controversial, but you have the same rights as everybody else. You'll never be Mr Popular, but the principal is important, If you have evidence of past assaults by the person concerned, and the company have taken no action you have a very strong case.

Posted By Zoe Barnett Even though you are the safety adviser you are also a human being. (Believe it or not!!) As such you are entitled to respect and courtesy. By the sound of it your manager is guilty of behaving in a very unprofessional manner. Regardless of how you may or may not have behaved to chappy, there is no excuse for subjecting you to abuse. I would suggest that you talk to your HR team about the stress and distress this incident has caused you on a personal level, and see if there is anything you can do via that route. It seems a shame that the chap who was rude to you in the first place is the only one to have shown you the least consideration since.

Posted By Rob Malcolm Bev, Thanks for your concerns. To be honest we should all be looking out for you not me. You should have a little chat with my good friends Thomas and Robert, one is an ex para the others an ex Scotts guard. Im not very tall but I can run like a ferret down a rabbit hole if I run out of options. Being abusive towards women is just not acceptable. I can't believe what you have been through. I'm beginning to think that I joined the wrong profession (only kidding). Just for the record, chappy once called a female member of staff an F in little C. Unfortunately she left soon after. Numerous members of staff have come forward to raise similar issues about him so I Think the table is turning for me. I have spent the day moping around at home by the PC. One good thing though. I have made a good new friend in Richard Chalkley. He's been a tower of strength to me all day - top man. Thanks again Richard Ta Bev Rob

Posted By Pete Driver You don't have to look to modern Iraq (or the USA!) to observe what occurs in its absence. I've missed the point, what has Iraq or the USA got to do with violent conduct toward a H&S officer?

Posted By Pete Driver 'Iraq and Bush-controlled USA illustrate the consequences of failing to value effective bureaucracy' Seems to me you are making a political statement on a non poliitical forum and which has nothing to do with the question being asked. I happen to disagree with your statement so where do we go from here?

Posted By Kieran J Duignan Pete I understand your interpretation. Mine is simply this: 1. power is part of all human relationships, not least in organisations. 2. Rob has described a work situation in which his line director has, as reported, abused his power. 3. I have drawn attention to this reality, based on the information Rob reported and highlighted relevant options to him. 4. I interpret your disagreement as a legitimate use of your responsibility to make political objections, too. 5. The actions of both of us are political to a degree - that is probably unavoidable if you wish to comment on the political mess Rob described.

Posted By Heather Aston Kieran I don't think it's the principle that we have a problem with - it's this bit: 'Iraq and Bush-controlled USA illustrate the consequences of failing to value effective bureaucracy' Iraq most certainly had bureaucracy. It didn't have democratic government, but that's hardly the same thing. How on earth do you work out that the USA doesn't have effective bureaucracy? I'm sure - like the UK - there are many things wrong with the US government, but if you've ever had to go through US customs and immigration you'll know that lack of bureaucracy isn't one of them! Now before I go right OT and get this thread deleted... Rob - part of the purpose of this forum is for safety professionals to provide support and help for each other. We are all (OOH there I go speaking for everyone - sorry folks) very sorry about what has happened to you and I (and I hope, most of the other safety professionals here) am certainly happy for you to keep posting here about this problem - I hope the Mods feel the same way. Let us know how it goes. Heather

Posted By Jonathan Breeze I assumed it was a dig at how the politicians were so keen to have a war, that the ignored the beaurocrats that told them there was no WMD and that the war was anyway illegal under international law. As a result, at least one beaurocrat in the UK took his life and this was directly attributable to the stress caused by bad management. I understood Kieran to be comparing the above example with Robs situation. Of course I could be totally wrong in my interpretation. Rob, be strong & don't let the b*****ds grind you down.