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#1 Posted : 29 April 2005 12:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen I was wondering if anyone could help clear this up for me. Who has the responsibility to report under RIDDOR for staff who are not under the direct employment of the company e.g. delivery drivers who fall or agency staff working on a production line. My understanding was that it falls to the test of 'controlling the work' as to make the distinction between employee and contractor. For example a builder would be classed as a contractor as although the company sets his work (e.g. build a wall), the way in which he does this is open to his own accord. Where as an agency worker on a production line is under the direction of the companys supervision and so falls under the catagory of company employee even though an employment agency sent him to the place of work. The reason I ask is that in another thread, a poster posted that they had been advised by the HSE that injuries to agency staff should be reported by the employment agency and not the company who's site they are working on.
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#2 Posted : 29 April 2005 12:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen I forgot to add (I wish there was an 'edit thread option)... My understanding for the delivery drivers is that they would fall under Reg 2 sec 26 as mobile employees and so their direct employer would be responsible regardless of where the accident occured. However, how would this been seen if the worker worked for a principle contractor on a building site (note not a sub contractor) would it be the site owner or the principle contractors responsibility?
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#3 Posted : 29 April 2005 12:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Taylor14 I would say that the person in control of the site needs to report the accident because they are in direct control and should the HSE investigate then they will want to see the area where the IP was working not some agency office miles away. statistcall it wouldnt make sense for the agency to report it as on the 2508 it asks what is what is your industry? and of course the employment agency would say just that so as in this case an injury on a construction site wouldnt be recorded as such. Hope that makes sense PT
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#4 Posted : 29 April 2005 12:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason McQueen Well, thats along the same thoughts I had. It was the poster who says they've been advised by the HSE that its the employment agency who should report thats thrown me.
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#5 Posted : 29 April 2005 12:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Donaldson May I suggest there is another angle. If they are on your site and not an employee they are then a “Member of the Public”. If an accident was to occur, which results in them being taken to hospital, then that accident should be reported by yourselves and if they are employed by another company by them as well.
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#6 Posted : 29 April 2005 16:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie I would beg to differ. My understanding is that under RIDDOR if a person is at work when they sustain a reportable accident it is THEIR employer who has the legal duty to report it to the HSE. In the case of a travelling worker e.g. delivery driver, the person controlling the premises may have to provide the employer with some of the details so that the employer can report. Only if the person who is injured is not at work (in this sense not on the premises for business purposes) would the requirements relating to members of the public be applicable. In the case of the construction site the CDM regulations place a duty on each contractor to tell the Principal Contractor of any reportable accidents their emplyees have had. It is not automatically the PC's role to notify the HSE.
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#7 Posted : 03 May 2005 08:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By JEFFREY SMITH Consider the MOD - we are a host unit with several 'lodgers' including service personnel and contractors. We are working as the service personnel in the lodger units report through their reporting system and copy me as the H&S advisor on the site, the same with Contractors. As to those directly employed by the host unit - they report directly through the chain to me. Investigating the accidents - that is currently a debatable subject but is usually a co-operative affair. The main lead on the incident should be the reporting authority (either contractor, lodger or host). Hope this helps
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#8 Posted : 03 May 2005 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Heather Aston I was the original poster that Jason refers to. This sitaution - with an agency worker- arose on one of our sites. We investigated the accident and then passed the info on to the agency (the person's employer) to report the accident to HSE. This is exactly what we would do (in fact have done several times) for a contract worker. It does not remove in any way our responsibility for those individuals H&S while they are on our sites. Neither the agency concerned in this example nor contractors in previous ones have had any problem with doing the reporting. In some cases they have - at our invitation - sent their own staff in to see what happened, in others (the agency for example) they have simply spoken to us on the phone and used our investigation. Several months ago, I was talking to an HSE inspector at a meeting and asked him for his what he thought. He agreed that what we were doing was correct in his opinion. I don't think you can take this as definitive HSE policy! I think the main thing is that SOMEONE reports the accident. If the agency or the contractor had refused to do so, I would have made sure that we reported it for them. We also probably would have seriously reconsidered whether we wanted to continue to do business with such an organisation. Of course the most important thing of all is to investigate and to carry out any necessary corrective actions to make sure the accident doesn't happen again. I would only report an accident to a non-employee in the first instance if it was a member of the public taken to hospital or a self-employed person who was too badly injured to report for themselves. Hope this helps Heather
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#9 Posted : 03 May 2005 10:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich Hall may i suggest that as long as the RIDDOR reportable incidents are not so frequent as to be commonplace ( and a pain), then it would be sensible to report it to the HSE anyway, if it happenend on your premises. They ( the HSE) won't look unfavourably on this , and you can send a copy to the IP's employers just to be nice. To ring a RIDDOR through to the useful HSE incident help desk only takes 10 mins or so.
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#10 Posted : 03 May 2005 14:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lisa Eldridge My understanding is that if the IP is on your premises and is injured due to your workplace then it is your responsibility to report.
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#11 Posted : 03 May 2005 15:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Heather Aston RIDDOR defines the responsible person on whom the duty falls as one of three possibilities: a) Specific examples for mines, quarries, offshore, dangerous occurrences on pipelines etc (none of which appy to the general case we are discussing here) "(b) (where sub-paragraph (a) above does not apply) in the case of the death of or other injury to an employee reportable under regulation 3 or of a disease suffered by an employee reportable under regulation 5, his employer; and (c) in any other case, the person for the time being having control of the premises in connection with the carrying on by him of any trade, business or other undertaking (whether for profit or not) at which, or in connection with the work at which, the accident or dangerous occurrence reportable under regulation 3, or case of disease reportable under regulation 5, happened" So whatever we may think, or do in practice, the law says it is the EMPLOYER if there is one who has the duty. The case rests m'lud. Heather p.s. I hope you've all contributed to the debate about RIDDOR changes on HSE's website. The discussion document comments on the confusion about how, when and why to report - they're not wrong are they!
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