Posted By Heather Aston Zoe What did the OFSTED team base their impression on? In my (limited) experience of this (as a school governor) I find they look very much on the surface - evidence of signs, first aid arrangements, supervision in the playground, security arrangements for "people safety" and spend virtually no time looking at any of the management systems behind all of this. Do you think this is what has happened in your case? Heather

Posted By Jez Corfield Zoe It is a common misconception to think that Ofsted might actually inspect standards of health and safety. They have no regulatory remit for health and safety as we would recgonise it! There is one standard, in all of the standards, that is about pupil health, safety and welfare, but it is not about staff safety or what we would see as 'normal' H&S management standards. If they are concerned about pupil H&S they are likely to skate over the surface, looking at the safety of pupils in relation to specific academic activities. It is the remit of the other enforcers to actually inspect with regard to H&S - but this leaves the Ofsted inspectors in a pickle, what do they do if they come across a problem? Likewise, other than some very specific pupil related subjects they have to take the head/manager on their word - as they dont actually have the skills (or remit) to look at general H&S. Jez

Posted By AjSaunders In my experieince i have come across conflicting reports, and indeed conflicting levels of "competence" amongst various Inspectorates. I am led to believe that as part of training requirements an element of H&S training is required, although i believe this level to be of a very basic nature - which raises the competence question!! I have had many a "discussion" with Care Commission Inspectors in the past who have made comments not based on any law i am aware of. At the end of the day they are there to indpect/enforce care standards - which is completely different to safety legislation. I have had heads of establishments freaking out in the past over comments "requirements" of inspectorates which have no basis in law. In short, of all the inspectors i have come across (many) i wouldnt consider any of them competent in anyway to offer competent safety advise, nevermind stipulate requirements!

Posted By Jez Corfield AJ, The reason it might be unfamiliar is because they ARE inspecting to legislation that you may be unaware of, in the case of the Care Commission its the Care Standards Act 2000 which contains safety requirements totally different to 'traditional' H&S legislation. Jez

Posted By AjSaunders I am well aware of the Care Standards Act thanks - as i said they are there to apply care standards - not h&s legisaltion

Posted By AjSaunders My understanding of the letter of understanding is slightly different. Although yes inspectorates could cause problems if there is a breach in h&s legislation - if the issue was h&s realted i.e. specific regulations applicable to it, then the HSE would be the enforcing authority NOT the Care Commission. the letter of understanding is open to slight interpretation. as i said i have had many dealings with them as a safety advisor for an LEA Education service and have taken my own advice. I dont have a problem when they stick to care standards but i do have a problem when inspectors try to preach h&s legislation when they dont have the necessary level of understanding. Anyway, moan over.

Posted By Jack But surely not under HASAWA?

Posted By J Knight Oops, silly me, MHSW Regs, not MHOR, John

Posted By Ken Taylor Our schools are visited by the Independent Schools Inspectorate who issue guidance for both health and safety and pupils' welfare. Check-lists ask for the school health and safety policy and procedures for monitoring, maintaining and improving health and safety standards and list numerous questions both general and specific to individual departments in addition to seeking judgement on child protection issues. A self-audit check-list has also been issued to schools which has a few questions about policies for bullying, safeguarding, educational visits, good behaviour, boarding standards, fire safety, first-aid, supervision, discipline, attendance and DDA - although a few other H&S-related items appear under 'the suitability of the premises and accommodation'. Checking risk assessments and their quality doesn't really seem to feature in any specific way. It all seems to come down to subjective observation based upon issued DfES guidance and standards and not really health and safety monitoring.