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Ground Works contractors - H&S documentation
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Posted By Eliot Clarke
After reviewing the work method statements and risk assessments for a ground work contractor it was clearly apparent that the detail included was to say the least, extremely basic.
The company isn't huge, it has a turnover of approx £3,500,000, and typical of this industry the company does not have huge resources or staff that are H&S aware.
I need to persuade them that what they are doing is not sufficient and wondered if anyone out there had copies of good work method statements & risk assessments for similar companies so that we can show them what is required in today's world rather than 1970.
Many thanks
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Posted By Thomas Woods
Elliot
Your website advertises your company's risk management division. Iwould advise you to get in touch with them, as they should be able to help with the documents required.
Tom
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Posted By James M
Good call Tom
do we take it that the information on the front page of the website is factually incorrect ???
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Posted By Robert S Woods
If it's an area I'm unfamiliar with I always say so (not that I'm suggesting this is the case in this thread). I have found that the great folk who inhabit this forum are always willing to help if you do.
Bob
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Posted By Jasonjg
Point them to a Health & Safety Consultant who works in that area of expertise.
Oh sorry I just read the above responces and realised you are Risk Consultants. Maybe you should of placed this in the careers forum and expected to pay for what you require and then took the difference from your fees.
Its one thing asking for some help and advice for in-house use or the occasional Consultant needing a point in the right direction, one or two docs etc.
To openly ask for everything that you are charging someone for, is just cheeky in my eyes.
Do your research, write up your documents and then put YOUR mark to them. If you are not prepared to do that, then at least give another consultant some work.
Maybe a more direct approach would have worked i.e.
We are a Risk Management Service and want to provide our client with the XXX documents. If anyone has such documents we would be prepared to pay ????? price as this would only be fair as we are charging (none of your business).
Maybe I am out of order, just a bad day
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Posted By Jasonjg
{Quote}If it's an area I'm unfamiliar with I always say so (not that I'm suggesting this is the case in this thread). I have found that the great folk who inhabit this forum are always willing to help if you do.
Bob{Quote}
Exactly, and there is nothing wrong with people or consultants asking for assistance and even the occasional document etc. Thats what is good about this forum.
I think my above posting may be a little harsh but it was the way I read it.
Sorry Eliot maybe a misunderstanding
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Posted By steven bentham
Eliot
I inspect a number of ground work contractors; I think you are being a little unkind in your comments: groundworkers work very hard for their money, any safety consultants who think differently should try a week digging holes!!
Increasing the paperwork of these people might not make them proportionally much safer! I have always encouraged them on their paperwork to develop to the needs of their own employees - not to the persons who are monitoring them.
Try the HSE's guidance or the Contractor Safety Manual [the blue books] which has very good basics for what should be looked at.
My other suggestion would be to look at what is actually going on in practise: look at excavations/shoring; cable avoidance; plant operator training; use of ppe; protection of public; safety on the highway etc.
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Posted By Christopher Kelly
No this sort of behaviour is not on. I continually find contractors on site who have paid a fortune to a consultant who did not take the time to understand what their risks were and given them an off the shelf policy with generic risk assessments which does not help them to eliminate risks in their business.
This gives the H&S industry a bad name.
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Posted By Chris Pope
Like a lot of the consultants who use this site, I don't quite know everything...yet.
I've been involved in construction for more than 30 years, but I have never actually erected concrete formwork panels, so when I needed to write a more detailed method statement I did what I always do - ask the people who do it - the customer. They are nearly always the only experts you will readily get assistance from, and what's more they pay you to listen to them!
The service you provide is to decifer the jargon, apply the general principles of safety as you understand them, cope with the law for them and interogate the bluffing and risk taking.
When you get down to detail you will find that there are inherent problems to the work of groundworkers, (like how to tie a ladder to nothing) - problems that maybe other consultants have given up on, and that is where you shine - by researching, thinkiing and enquiring (including using this site) to get answers to problems that don't have an off the shelf answer.
It took a fair bit of determinatino to put together the detailed method statement I wrote for the formwork contractor, but I thoroughly enjoyed it the contractor had to do some logical safety thinking. I learned all the jargon, and discovered that they already had most of their bases covered.
The next step is to catch them out on site when their men don't actually follow the method statement - that is when you are really tackling the safety culture.
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Posted By Eliot Clarke
Many thanks to those few that responding with positive comments without jumping to conclusions.
We do supply risk management advice but not generally to the construction industry and do not have those specialist capabilities in house. It was clear that the docs the client had were inadequate and we were hoping to persuade the client to employ a specialist either inhouse or externally. However this can often be difficult without having examples of good practice that are used in the real world.
Ps. We are not the type of consultants that supply off the self policies, risk assessments etc and spend a great deal of time condemning those that do.
I also know what digging holes for a week is like having worked in the swimming pool industry in the past!!!
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