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Posted By Michael Griffith
Hello,
I wonder if anyone can help. An employee had an accident whilst at work, which resulted in an injury to his Knee. the IP says that his kneecap dislocated but went back into place when he put his foot on the floor. he and a few other employees could see that his knee was out of place through his jeans.
The IP went to hospital in an ambulance and had x-rays of his knee and there is no evidence of his knee dislocating.
I have no reason to disbelieve the IP and the question isn't should i believe him or not but should i report this as a major injury or should i report it as an over three day injury?
thanks in advance to any replies.
mick.
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie
You don't state how long the employee was absent from work.
Not counting the day of the accident (but including weekends; rest days etc) if he was absent for four days the accident is reportable to the HSE as an OVER 3 Day Accident.
If he returned to work before 4 days absence as described above it is not reportable to the HSE. If he subsequently goes absent for 4 consecutive days because of the alleged accident it would then become reportable.
The HSE have an excellent leaflet that can be downloaded free of charge from their web site called "RIDDOR explained" that might help you.
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie
Before someone corrects me I have just re-read the list of Major Injuries and realise my error.
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Posted By Michael Griffith
Hi Martyn,
The accident happened on thursday afternoon so today would be the fourth day.
The question which i need help with is, should i take the IPs word for it that his kneecap had dislocated and gone back into place, and report the incident as a major injury, or should i report as an over three day injury because there is no medical evidence?
Cheers
Mick
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Posted By Heather Aston
Mick
I would report as a 3 day plus.
I think you have to report what you can see from the medical evidence, not what the employee thinks happened. How does he know it was dislocated - knee injuries can be very painful and the knee can look "out of place" without dislocation.
Describe the bit about the employee thinking the kneecap might have been displaced, but it "popped back in" on the F2508 and then you have justified why you have reported as you have.
Current RIDDOR amendment proposals would remove the distinction anyway, so I don't think HSE is all that worried as long as you do report it.
This is my opinion - I don't think there's a definitive answer here.
Heather
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Posted By Kevin West
Having been both a player and later the secretary for my local rugby league club I have witnessed many of these types of accidents involving dislocated knee caps and the like.
In most cases an xray will not show any evidence of a dislocation having had occured as there is no bone damage (unless of course the dislocation still exists). Xrays do not show soft tissue damage.
Soft tissue damage can, however, be very disabling and often takes longer to heal than broken bones.
You state that thare were witnesses to the fact that the dislocation occured. I would not seek any further medical evidence to report this under the RIDDOR regulations.
I also find myself asking, why would the IP lie to you? Is he adamant that the Injury be reported due to the fact its a dislocation rather than a three day injury? If so why?
For the definative answer visit:
http://nbweb01.nbapp.com/whatrisk/askdennis.asp
and "ask dennis".
This is a free ask the expert service provided by National Britannia. National Britannia operate the RIDDOR Incident contact centre on behalf of the HSE so if any one should know the team at National Britannia should.
I hope this helps.
Kevin
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Posted By moshe Dyan
Apart from reporting the accident as an over three day absence, I would initiate a stringent investigation to prove or disprove all alleged events leading up to the accident.
Sadly in todays climate it could be a ruse for a compendation claim.
However, as has alrerady been pointed out, damage need not show on an x-ray and further pain may not materalise for several weeks/months. There is a possibility that there could be damage to the knee cartilage, muscle or tendons. Further pain could result in a cat scan which would show damage.
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Posted By Jack
My thinking would be report it as an over 3 day. However, I would state on the form the circumstances as described by the IP. ie that in their view it was dislocated temporarily but that this could not be confrmed by the hospital.
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