Posted By Stephen D. Clarke The British multi-national company I worked for had a safety advisor at each site. When they were taken over by a european multi the first thing the new owners did, before closing several sites, was make a number of advisors redundant. H&S advice etc was subsequently to come from the site manager. Steve

Posted By stephen J Smith I am a safety professional and also a consultant. I only get the call when companys are in it sometimes above the neck. So my thoughts are that good professionals won't have a problem, we might have to amend prices but I have a colleague who upped his prices by 50% and got more work, in house guys are a necessaery evil as far as accountants are concerned, never taken too seriously but their advice is usually as good as consultants. Stick with it the more enlightened companys will employ safety professionals the fly by nights won't until theres an issue and then they need them as well. regards stephen

Posted By Alias I think if the enforcement agencies even did a half decent job of "enforcing" the law (Government's fault mostly) and fines we're reflective of the nature of the crime, industry would be creaming out for h&s to sweep in and save them money, we'd be paid handsomely and seen as a real business need.

Posted By Robert K Lewis As implied by some of the responses above there are question marks about the future of the profession. We cannot continue to be practitioners in the time honoured fashion of being the policeman and the person who organises the supply of safety equipment etc and its maintenance. As we enter the new era of chartered membership we need to address our role and how it is to be performed. For me it is clear that we must in some manner move into the fields of corporate governance, management systems design and implementation and compliance management. We cannot stand to one side and allow others to set the pace in managing businesses whilst we merely service the "mundane advice and do on the shop floor " situations. If we stay at this point we will continue to be reactive instruments of, rather than proactive participators in, good company management. Bob

Posted By Alias Lee, My meaning is this. Enforcing authorities are vastly under resourced, and target many of their existing resources towards pro-active work, this I am not necessarily criticising. However what we are left with is a multitude of safety violations that go unpunished; on average it’s years before a business can expect a visit from an EHO, Technical Officer or Inspector. People readily break the law and remain ignorant of it and get away with it. Few are held to account and when they are they are fined a pitiful amount; admittedly smaller companies feel the pinch of a fine; but the average £8,000 fine its not as much as a poke in the arm for larger businesses. I work for a large company enforced by the Local Authority; health and safety here is a hideous joke; we really need to be enforced by the HSE, but we are an exceptional case. People here are regularly faced with activities that can kill or maim and often do result in major injury. Try as I might to change things I am up against 30 years of “getting away with it” and so it is a slow process. The EHO’s come very often, can’t fault them there, say things are terrible and need to change and do nothing about it. No improvement notice or prohibition notice, which as a safety professional I know will act as a swift kick in the butt which we need. Why don’t they get they’re teeth in? I am incredibly disillusioned with the health and safety system of the UK; I have studied this at great length and it was the subject of my university dissertation. I’m afraid we are being failed. We’re the authorities better at education and enforcement, the business would soon place greater value on health and safety and indeed us. The fact that punishment is rarely handed out and when it is it’s not more than a slap across the risk compounds the problem of non compliance.

Posted By Peter Lee Alias, cant argue with that pretty much spot on. Theres on average one Enforcement Officer per 1000 premises, impossible to visit every premises every year.

Posted By Merv Newman which industry doesn't matter much. I've done chemicals, engineering, car and truck building, plastics manufacturing and conversion, uranium mining, IBM, papermaking, construction, ... I've even worked in ladies underwear. Current jobs include construction of nuclear submarines and manufacture of plastic page-holders. We have consulted to sites from 30 to 7 000 employees. And we don't advertise. Do a good job, get the accident rate down and friends talk to friends. Do SMS. Make sure they have the technical ressources and comptences, then do BBS. Gets 'em every time. e-mail me direct. Merv

Posted By Lumpy Undoubtedly the "old style" H&S Practitioner is on the way out. Those who still "attack" H&S in isolation rather than in conjunction with other management systems, business plans, corporate governance etc. will find it hard managing at top level, and will not convince their Boards that they, or their function, add value. If you are still viewed as a bolt on extra, rather than intergral with the business then you may be surplus to requirements. You need to demonstrate to your Board that Safety is not in conflict with profit, and on the contrary it is good for business. You will not do this by fire fighting, being reactive and telling people "you can't do that". Shane

Posted By Jasonjg Very inspiring and so very true George and Lumpy.

Posted By J Knight I actually saw an adder last night, but it was only four inches long and didn't bite me...oh, sorry, wrong thread...:) John

Posted By Merv Newman Going back a bit, you can't change the safety culture of a business by sweeping in, quick diagnosis, report with action plan and then bugger off and leave them to it. You may get good results in the first few months or even a year but as soon as something important happens to that company it all goes out of the window. We've seen it with new products coming into the plant, changes of plant managers, even strikes. The average manager cannot walk and do safety at the same time. It takes time and lots of TLC to get a solid culture change so that, eventually, H&S is part of the way of life. This means that the safety professional has to look on whatever they are doing as part of a long term project. 4 or 5 years of plugging away in the right dirrection. And you can't be "elbow patches and "you can't do that"". You have to be part of the family and "We can do that a damn sight better if we ....."

Posted By Steven Mellor In my ever so humble opinion smaller companies may well 'do away' with the full time professional and start to use the 'chartered safety professional' in the same way that legal professionals are used. Which of course means that we can all charge solicitor type fees. £150 an hour OK for everyone? Steve

Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney Merv Got any vacancies??!! Charles

Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney See what I can do buddy, till then I will ave to put up with me 4.80 an hour.