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#1 Posted : 13 June 2005 11:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Wright Opinions please - Would anyone out there class an individual getting an insect sting as an "accident" and if they were off work for over three days would you class it as a RIDDOR Reportable.
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#2 Posted : 13 June 2005 11:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Depends. Can you give us some more info? E.g. does the individual work in Apiculture? Was the individual just sitting at their desk typing when they got stung?
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#3 Posted : 13 June 2005 11:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight I might look at 'arising out of work' on this one. For example, an apiarist very definitely, and office worker possibly not, John
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#4 Posted : 13 June 2005 11:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Wright more info - person working on shop floor and is stung (or possibly biten) by an insect of some discription.
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#5 Posted : 13 June 2005 12:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight As you can see, Jonathon and I were thinking along very similra lines. I wouldn't see an insect bite/sting on the shop floor as arising out of work; what Iwould like to know though is what on earth required a three-day absence from work? Wasp and bee stings are painful for a couple of hours, and that's about as bad as it gets in the UK. If this was an allergic reaction to a wasp or bee sting etc, then unless in apiculture, pest-control or some other trade which demand close contact with wasps and bees it wouldn't be reportable, John
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#6 Posted : 13 June 2005 12:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Peter, Was the sting or bite, one of the recognised inherent risks of the job (e.g. bee keeping, pest control & cutting roadside verges) , or was it incidental to the situation? I would be inclined to say not reportable based on the info you have given, but I might be missing some vital piece of information. As John says the individual might have suffered from anaphylactic shock which resulted in an over 3 day illness, but unless their job description actually involved dealing with stinging or biting organisms then it would not be RIDDOR reportable.
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#7 Posted : 13 June 2005 20:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Peter. If the person suffered a bite from a dog that got into your factory, would it be reportable .........Yes is the answer. Irrespective of the fact that this was sting from a flying insect, if the person involved required time off work that made it reportable under riddor, I would suggest it is reportable, irrespective of the fact that the insects are not an normal/accepted hazard in the workplace (e.g. bee keeping). The RIDDOR regs specifically identify injuries attributed to 'animals, but do not specifically identify insects, however it the result is the same I would see the reporting procedures to be the same.... Stuart
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#8 Posted : 14 June 2005 09:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Stuart, I accept your point about the insects being animals. On reflection, you would definitely report a worker bitten by an animal in the course of their duty if they triggered any of the usual RIDDOR rules (hospitalisation/ over 3 days etc). Also, this particular case may possibly be covered by Schedule 1, 10: "Acute illness which requires medical treatment where there is reason to believe that this resulted from exposure to a biological agent or its toxins or infected material." It seems to me that sting or whatever was injected by the critter is definitely a toxin or infected material because of the reaction caused. The biological agent is in this case the bee/insect or other arthropod of choice. Peter, if in doubt you could always contact the RIDDOR helpline & ask them. After all they are the experts in this case.
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#9 Posted : 14 June 2005 10:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight On the other hand, if a member of the public assaults an employee during the course of their employment for a reason not connected with work, that would not be reportable. I continue to think that an insect sting would not be arising from work, and the biological toxin bit is surely to cover workers in biological assay or research plants? RIDDOR, don't you love it? Ostensibly so simple, but when you get down to it it's as clear as mud, which makes Jonathon's final bit of advice well worth following John
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#10 Posted : 14 June 2005 11:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Iain Milne At my last Company, one of my Electricians was bitten by a spider (not normal in UK because of spider size and the way native spiders 'bite' but I saw the body). A couple of hours later he was taken to hospital because of creeping paralysis affecting his left arm and neck. Hospital admitted him for 5 hours while they monitored his condition and tried to find a serum just in case. When the effects did not get any worse and he was only left with a cold sensation in his neck they discharged him. He had the following day off work at the Doctor's recommendation. I reported on-line to Riddor! It only took a few minutes and maybe someone reading the report would or could have linked to other incidents. The incident happened in an H.V. switchroom. The premises were close to old Leith Docks. There was no follow up by HSE, and since the Company was closed at the end of 2004 there is now unlikely to be. Maybe some of the above information will help someone in the future. Kind regards, Iain Milne
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#11 Posted : 15 June 2005 21:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle J Knight.... If a person (member of the public) assaults an employee in the workplace it is reportable under RIDDOR. Regards... Stuart
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#12 Posted : 16 June 2005 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack Stuart, I think John's point was that it would only be if it arose out of or in connection with work, which means that some such assaults are not reportable.
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#13 Posted : 16 June 2005 13:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze I've been thinking again (it's dangerous, I know) but what is the actual definition of "arose out of or in connection with work" as this seems to be the sticking point?
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#14 Posted : 16 June 2005 13:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete Moran I can't see what the confusion is about.....this is an injury sustained whilst at work that should be recorded as an accident....if there is a three day absence resulting from the injury however minor the initial injury might be then it is reportable under RIDDOR.....
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#15 Posted : 17 June 2005 08:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jack To expand further on the point John was making I have pasted below an extract from an HSE guide on RIDDOR (This one is Sector specific but there are others): To be reportable, the accident must ‘arise out of or be in connection with work’. Understanding this phrase from the Regulations is vital to helping determine if an accident is reportable. Its broad meaning is that an accident will be reportable if it is associated in some way with how the work is carried out. When assessing this, three key factors should be taken into account. These are: - how the work is organised, supervised or performed; - the plant or substances used, eg lifts, tables, gas/ electrical appliances and cleaning chemicals; and - the condition of the premises or their maintenance, eg floors, carpets, lighting. In general, if an accident is completely unconnected with any of these it will not be reportable.
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#16 Posted : 17 June 2005 09:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charlie Gunter Advice given to me by an HSE Inspector was, "If in doubt report it. No one ever got into trouble for reporting something unnecessarily." That works for me.
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#17 Posted : 17 June 2005 20:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barry Cooper Peter, I have had experience of this type of situation, as two years ago, our gardener and his mate were cutting up a tree that had fallen over a footpath. The mate got stung by a wasp, after their work had disturbed a nest. He suffered an alergic reaction and was off work for 5 days (or skiving) I rang the HSE for advice, their answer was this: "If the wasp was just passing by and decided to sting the person, then it wasn't a reportable accident, on the other hand, if the wasp stung the person because he had annoyed it by his work, then it is reportable" We reported it, as I couldn't find the wasp to interview it. The mate then told the gardener that he knew he was allergic to wasp stings. I wonder why he chose gardening as a career?
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