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#1 Posted : 21 June 2005 16:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cr8r Where I work, if you do a course, any course, even H&S, if you then leave employment within two years, you have to pay back the course fees in full. There is a high turnover here and I'm worried that fear of being charged (having money deducted from your last pay packet) is preventing people from wanting to attend much needed courses. I also don't think this is legal but would like your thoughts. All the legislation I can find says you can't charge the employee and it has to be in working time etc, but what about asking for the money back if they leave? As the going rate for most courses is £150 - £200 per day, you can imagine that you could rack up quite a debt here. I would appreciate your thoughts on this one, have a meeting with HR on the subject coming up.
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#2 Posted : 21 June 2005 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By ITK I think the distinction has to be made between training courses and qualifications. It is of course a legal requirement of HASAW to provide training so I fail to see how the employer can claw back any costs incurred. As far as further qualifications are concerned its common to sign a contract with your employer about paying costs back within a specified timeframe if you decide to leave.
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#3 Posted : 21 June 2005 17:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Chalkley I agree with ITK, there needs to be a distinction here. Training which is essential to do the job safely must be free of charge and the employer cannot back charge the employees. Any policy which acted to deterr this would not be legal. Qualifications which are perhaps useful but optional to the job I would say that this could be charged back. The distinction needs to be made very clearly as someone charged for a course which a tribunal decided was essential... You can guess the result. Richard.
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#4 Posted : 21 June 2005 17:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Craythorne I concur with the previous respondents. Where health and safety related training is provided as a necessity for carrying out the job safely (e.g. slinging and lifting for crane operators or noise awareness for foundry workers) then this must be provided free of charge and without any clawback clause. Where health and safety related training is provided purely as a personal development option and it is not linked to the job by virtue of enabling the recipient to work in a safe manner or by enabling the receipient to discharge their legal duties effectively then the employer can, if prior agreed with the employee, clawback costs incurred if the employee leaves within a specified period of time. The simple answer is job critical or personal development? Regards, Paul Craythorne
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#5 Posted : 21 June 2005 20:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jon B The question and relies ,ake interesting reading for me. Our company introduced the same policy as a means of protecting their investment. They however took it one step further. Even though I am safety officer I double hat and the safety part is an add on, not a core activity (yes you did read that right). I had to do my Nebosh NGC self funding and take holidays for the exams. The safety officer part is not in my contract but my name is listed in the company organisation as such. Therefore is Nebosh CPD or part of my training to do the job. The company has not nominated any competent person. Needless to say when I leave, I have nothing to lose, nor regrets. (Still trying my best - no offers yet though - I have the motivation just need the chance. I can see the logic in the theory, especially if you have a high turnover - in you case though maybe the company should some effort into finding the reason behind the high turnover in the first place, ours is down to low morale, and you can see why. As a final note, if its what you want to do then either pay yourself or sign the pay back clause, either way is a good investment in your future (If you are really lucky a new employer may even help with the payback if they really want you).
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#6 Posted : 22 June 2005 09:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Chalkley Jon, If you are listed by the company as helping with the management of Health and Safety then the NEBOSH Certificate is not CPD, it is a core part of the requirements to be compatent for the job. You say that they have not formally appointed someone competent yet they list you as doing H&S for them. To me it sounds as if you have been appointed by default and I suspect that any inspectors would treat you as such. As to H&S not being on your job description - I would push for that otherwise how can you claim the experience on your CV if human resources have no record of it. You imply that you may be intending to leave - I would fight for this tob be included. You never know, they might even give you some time to address it properly... All the best, Richard.
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#7 Posted : 22 June 2005 15:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh I can't bleieve that this really is true - is it an urban myth? If true, I ask myself who would actually work for such a company. I think that you would be able to go to the small claims court and get the money back - unless you signed an agreement to this (and who would?)
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#8 Posted : 22 June 2005 15:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Chalkley Gary, Actually I have worked for 2 companies which run a similar system but not for any H&S courses. Unfortunately it is a common HR practice. Richard.
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