Posted By Alan Spiers My understanding is there are 20 plus providers offering passport training and many large industries and construction companies are insisting that those working on their premises have a passport. The HSE produce a good practice guide indg 381 explaining what a passport is, however there are problems resulting from ignorance of the above and failure of the HSE to insist on an essential sylabus to formally make them all 'the same' The end result is a good scheme discredited because of 4 main points. 1. Companies 'approve' a particular scheme therefore contractors can be required to have several different passports thereby covering core sylabus many times, resulting in a waste of time feeling. 2. Company managers think a passport replaces site induction. 3. Company managers insist on a passport from someone with a higher level of training. 4. Contractors who work in different industries and companies find themselves asked to go through various schemes resulting in them believing its a time & money wasting system because they have done it before. Is this a worthy cause for IOSH to influence HSE to strenghten its role in ensuring the system makes a positive impact on H&S and not one that increasingly being discredited. ( I never understood why IOSH stopped involvement in passport traning )

Posted By Caroline Holden Alan & Frank When HSE ran a consultative meeting group of over 60 interested parties called the Passport Forum I represented IOSH's interest on this group. One of the main goals of this group was to gain reciprocity between schemes so that many of the weaknesses you described would not occur. The HSE Leaflet 'Passport Schemes for health, safety and the environment: a good practice guide' indg381 - was produced with significant input from IOSH and others on the Passport Forum. To my knowledge there is no forum which meets to discuss Passports at a national level. IOSH is involved in accrediting and issuing passports for various organisations. Our revamped Working Safely course will be a 100% match to the HSE recommended syllabus contained within their indg281 leaflet. If you would like to know more about the new Working Safely can I recommend that you visit our mico-site at www.iosh.co.uk/enjoylearning. IOSH ceased it's alliance with SPA due to business reasons. Regards Caroline Holden IOSH's Director of Commercial Affairs

Posted By Alan Spiers Thank you Caroline for your update and Frank for his support, cannot believe more people do not feel passionate about this problem that discredits H&S training & makes people believe its a money making system. I will continue to press for the HSE to clarify that a core sylabus is just that and therefore all schemes 'the same' including working safely. In the short term this could be done by a press release, longer term reprint leaflet. Basically something in writing from authority to put under the nose of ignorant managers and companies to confirm what we already know thereby elliminating duplication. Hopefully IOSH can also support this approach. Alan

Posted By Frank Hallett Good morning all. Rob, thank you for your input on this topic, and also Caroline; your responses aremost encouraging as they send a clear message that IOSH is aware and attempting to do something at a national level on this extremely frustrating, and ultimately extremly costly for business, problem. It would be of considerable help if, as Alan identifies, there were more safety professionals who want to see protectionism and barriers to true inderstanding and competence removed and stand up for that principle. This is obviously an issue that will run & run for the foreseeable future as the HSE or the HSC are extremely unlikely to support any real legislative input. They ought to support it though; apart from anything else, a great number of HSE & LA Inspectors will have a major source of potential enforcement [and therefore use of resources] removed 'cos the current system allows such a huge variability of the definition of competence and minimum standards. After all, it's been done for the gas industry and the electrical industry is going down a similar road - is the need for general basic h&s competence any less? It still won't address the very real problems that occur on site however; lack of understanding, deliberate ignorance of the real need, complacency, lax [or non-existant supervision], cost taking precedence over effectiveness etc, etc! But that is what the enforcers are really there for, isn't it? Frank Hallett