Posted By Alison Melrose Oh don't get me started on what people think about safety! I live near Edinburgh and was a bit annoyed when I heard Sir Bob Geldolf urged 1 million people to come up for a jolly on the 6th July. Now, I've nothing against the concerts (which will have proper stewards, security and welfare facilities) and I do think the west could do a lot more to help Africa but I thought his rant was ill conceived and downright dangerous. Edinburgh has about 460,000 people in it and increasing that number by a million (2 million if you listen to Bono) will create all sorts of problems. So, I thought I'd voice my concerns on his forum website... and the sheer stupidity of some of the people! Like "the anarchists wouldn't mingle with peaceful protesters"....um, care to explain WHY NOT!!?! and that I was a doom and gloom merchant that could only see the down side and not the positive (as I said, I think the concerts are a fine idea). Anybody that dared to agree with me was flamed (even loyal fans were questioned as to their loyalty for this man!). It's like watching sheep... I gave references to past G8 protests (where people had been injured) as well as personal experience from New Year celebrations on Princes Street (before the numbers were limited - I was there when there was 350,000 or so and was squashed at the bottom on Hanover Street). I gave incidences of mindless violence in Edinburgh with crowds - a few years back when some kids slashed the legs of Firework attendees at the end of the festival. I cited recent football matches (where there had been an invasion of the pitch that the police were unable to stop) and provided website forum addresses which mentioned local football team "casuals" actively looking to fight the protesters when they arrived. Their response...you are delusional...it won't happen...people aren't like that...stop being negative.... ARGHHHHHHH!!! I pointed out I was in the field of health and safety so knew a bit about crowd dynamics / crush injuries etc but it seems to make no difference....so I've given up with that one. They'll come to Edinburgh and some of them will spend time in the new Royal Infirmary (or perhaps the city Morgue if they are really unlucky). The folk of Edinburgh will be left to pick up their cr*p (and probably foot the bill for the shindig) but as long as Sir Bob gets his mug on the TV screen then everything will be fine and dandy... Rant over....

Posted By Jasonjg Alison Do you like Bob?

Posted By Alison Melrose Oh OK, maybe it's because getting to work next week will be an absolute nightmare thanks to him!!

Posted By Rob T On the original thread - Unfortunately a lot of people see us in this way and to some extent they have a point! Jeremy Clarkson has some very valid points about overenthusiastic H&S advisers interpreting safety to the n'th degree and not allowing for the fact that there has to be some risk to make life worthwhile. This together with the absolute rubbish coming out of the EU who's only impact seems to be on the UK (we already had some of the best safety systems in the world before they started interfering). If you can be realistic and deal with the real risks then people will come on board to the point where "elf an' safety innit" once again becomes a profession where people take notice because they want to rather than because they "have" to. Oh and by the way - if I attended church (which I don't unless it's the usual weddings etc) I would be embarrasssed to hear the vicar (or whatever) start pointing to fire exits like an airline steward. Let's just ensure that we stop the conkers bonkers brigade from making a laughing stock of our profession and get back to the real world. As for Bob Geldof - I've worked in many places in Africa and I wouldn't allow one penny to go to these places until they have got rid of the corrupt, murdering, torturing leaders who will steal any money that they receive. Any African leader who has more money than Tony Blair/Shroeder (third and fourth richest countries in the world) etc is in my opinion, corrupt, and should be ousted. I'm (for the first time in my life, with Oasis here!). Rant over.... just taken a happy pill.

Posted By Jasonjg Alias I think the point is, should the Vicar/priest have needed to point out the exits verbally at the congregation. If their was a proper assessment of the fire risk within this building then surely other plans would have worked just as well without the need for a Holy man looking like a stewardess.

Posted By Alias Jason, if that's the case why point them out ever? Don't confuse the issue because it's a church and a no one expects a vicar to talk about health and safety.

Posted By Robert K Lewis Just to pull a few threads together here - We are all concerned with a rash of issues that ultimately come down to issues of competency for the people initiating such actions. We are constantly struggling against the tide of persons who can latch on to the alarmist buttons that are within us all. A few carefully chosen words presented well and they become "gospel" so to speak. I do not blame the press it is the people who place some real or imagined letters after their name, take up a "common sense" precautionary principle and frighten the horses in every field. What's the answer? I don't know as I have seen it for more than 30 years and I never cease to be amazed at the ingenuity of some people or the gullibility of others. As they say "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time". Lets hope we will track out of here eventually Bob

Posted By Jasonjg (Quote) As for Asda, they are two busy with putting together their price comparison trolleys! Hopefully not along emergency exit routes lol At the end of the day none of us have seen the Church in question and do not know what was going on at the time. It could have been a great hall or a small room within a complex????? Who knows? Churches have limited budgets blah blah. Maybe it was the best course of action in that particular circumstance. Its funny really because when I was going into safety, I attended a well known college. Myself and 15 other existing and potential safety managers were all briefed about fire when we changed to another part of the complex. Very good you may think. One day the alarm rings and it took 17 safety managers and a tutor a good 5 minutes to determine whether or not it was a fire alarm. Quite funny asking the caretaker what we should do. Maybe someone remembers this day Cum on, own up, I know you are out there

Posted By Sean Fraser Up here in the frozen North, we have started a project where we take hazard recognition and risk assessment out to the secondary schools - we are still in the pilot stage but had a very successful session involving the 13-14 year olds. The point we make is that safety is all to do with risk perception and taking appropriate measures to reduce the risk to as low as practicable. Banning things is not usually an appropriate response but shouldn't be ruled out (asbestos & other dangerous substances being a good example). We want children to understand the basic principle of safety and to appreciate that it isn't difficult to apply, doesn't require lots of forms or specialist knowledge - applying the principle of risk assessment in your head will make any activty safer, even seemingly simple ones, and it is something they do all day, every day anyway. The bad PR in which the media portrays us is because of how some people have and continue to approach H&S, and we need to counter that less in what we say to defend ourselves and more in our actions. Look at your own H&S system and apply the KISS principle to it - if you have to jump through hoops just to get a lightbulb changed then you have a problem. Simplify! (KISS for those who may not know is Keep It Simple, Stupid). People should be able to read that c**p in the paper and NOT associate it with what you and I advocate. There is therefore no need to justify ourselves against the actions of others. Lead by example.

Posted By Alias Sorry Jason I cross posted, i.e. wrote mine at same time as yours but having seen yours would not have posted what I posted, make sense? Good :) lol @ your anecdote and thank god someone else actually uses text speak so I can using rofl, bbs, lmao, btw, nvm, etc. will improve my productivty on this board some 2%, woot!

Posted By Alias Sorry we seem to have hijacked this topic, but stranegly enough I'm part of a huge gaming community too which is where I got my lingo. bbs = be back soon, nvm = nevermind. Coming from a gaming community you may also be familiar with n00b and pwn, hee hee. Id you're not I'll scuttle back under my rock. Sorry that will the last time I go off topic in this thread.

Posted By Eric PD H&S is just recorded common sense in a lot of situations. The problems arise when these overzelous incompetant blithering beurocrats think that H&S Management = ACE ie arse covering excersise. I say cover your arse by all means but not to the extent that you cant unbuckle your trousers.