Posted By Ed Mcgarrell Regarding Message Posted 20/06/05 When is a H&S manager reportable to I.OS.H. Scottish Ambulance Service Audit I have given this report a lot of thought and can only assume the H&S manager is bowing to management pressure or is grossly incompetent.However i feel strongly about complaining about a fellow professional but cant help think something isnt right.opinions would be most welcome.

Posted By Jack Yes, it intrigues me too Sally. I have nothing more to go on than what I have read in these two threads so maybe I'm not aware of the full picture. Do you have any information to suggest the h&s practitioner has not fulfilled his/her responsibilities. Could it be that the organisation has not effectively implemented their advice.

Posted By David A Jones I am sceptical as well - what is the basis of your axe you are grinding? Do you work for the ambulance service? Did you apply for the job and not get it? Have you had a run in with the H&S manager? etc. etc. etc. However, I don't know all the facts and don't wish to jump to one side of the fence or the other. It may be that the manager is failing to achieve the desired effect within the trust - this could be due to incompetence, or equally due to lack of management support etc. I agree that as health and safety professionals we should be held accountable for our advice - however in this instance it appears that a number of improvement notices have been issued and I would suspect that management are aware of this. I would suggest that any manager faced with this would ask questions (assuming they understand they have legal responsibilities) and decide what changes need to be made - including replacing the manger if they believe them to be incompetent or not discharging the duties of the function, or making greater commitment themselves and if appropriate more resources available. However, without the full facts, and I don't just mean the report, it is impossible to provide any more detailled comment

Posted By Bob Wilson Well, what do you know! Here I am, 16 years with IOSH, and today I decided to have a look at their discussion group for the first time – and what do I find... First, Eddie Mcgarrell. Surely not THE Eddie McGarrel of Red Cross/Stobhill fame? Eddie, if it is you, a big Hi nice to ‘hear’ from you after all these years. If it ain’t you, well hi anyway. This Scottish Ambulance Service business. I used to work for them. Senior Training Officer way back some 18 years ago. I’m now a Safety Manager in the Fish Farming Industry (15yrs). So I’ve had a foot in both camps as Ambulance Trainer and Safety Professional. I attended an IOSH sponsored course some months ago and met an old colleague who spoke about the HSE improvement notices served on the SAS. He also spoke about the difficulty in recruiting someone for the post of Safety Manager for the Service. At that time I think the post was still open. I had seen it advertised and got an application form but... never applied. I reckon I’ve spent too long in the private sector to put up with all the NHS shenanigans again : ) I do feel Eddie’s being a bit hard on whoever’s holding down the H&S role within the Service however. It’s all very well to point to stuff like lack of tail-lifts as being the cause of manual handling injuries among paramedics, but the truth and reality is that the type of work does not lend itself to good lifting technique or the engineering out of heavy or awkward lifts. It’s one thing to always adopt good lifting techniques when dealing with boxes of widgets off an assembly or whatever. But it’s a different story when faced with gettng a seriously ill/injured/dying patient down a three storey flight of tenement stairs in Glasgow, whilst having to negotiate coal bunkers on each landing and at the same time controlling/adjusting the various bits of life support equipment as you go. It’s a very physical, difficult and demanding job. Believe me, my knees and back are testimony to that. The last bit, actually getting the patient into the ambulance, with or without a tail-lift can be the easiest bit! As far as training is concerned. I know that all basic training courses held in the past at Gartloch and Redlands included many hours of lifting practice with talks/demonstations on kinetics of lifting and lifting techniques. I’ve no reason to believe this is not the case at Peebles. Knowing the Service as I do and the role of Safety Manager, I do not envy the person who carries out that job. It’s easy to critcise. Bob Wilson