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Posted By Tracey Thompson
I recently had a conversation with a member of one of our teaching unions who have informed me that another authority has issued guidance to schools which states a maximum temperature to which they should be working to (27 degrees was mentioned). As the welfare regs do not state a maximum, I'm unsure that any authority would commit themselves to this as they would find whole schools (or workplaces for that matter) walking out as soon as the temp reached this maximum. I'm currentlytrying to get hold of the H&S person within this authority to try and clarify this but with no avail at the moment.
We have issued guidance in line with the welfare regs to schools but our union lady is trying to push for us to state a maximum temp within my authority, which I feel is inadvisable, but are other authorities doing this?
Your thoughts on this would be very helpful.
Tracey
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Posted By Frank Cooper
There is advice in the ACoP stating the minimum temperature in workrooms should be 16 oC, or if severe physical effort is required, 13 oC. This advice does not apply where it would be impractical to maintain such temperatures, e.g where food is being kept cold. There is no advice on an appropriate maximum temperature.
The temperature only needs to be "reasonable".
The Chartered Institution of Building Service Engineers (CIBSE) has published design criteria for temperature in buildings used for work. CIBSE recommends a range from 13 oC for heavy work to 20 oC for sedentary work. The World Health Organisation recommends 24 oC as the maximum temperature for working in comfort. Beyond this dehydration, heat stress and ultimately heat stroke can occur.
The Regulations require a sufficient number of thermometers to be available to enable the temperature to be measured throughout the workplace. The Approved Code of Practice (ACoP) says thermometers need not be in every room.
In some instances a maximum working temperature can be agreed between the employer and their employees but there is no legal reason for doing so.
Hope this helps,
Frank C
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
When I worked at a LA I advised that anything over 28 would be consdered uncomfortable but they should then take measures to reduce this. It was meant as an indicator of when it was reaching extremes - not a maximum before leaving.
Perhaps this is what they were meaing and got interpreted incorrectly?
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Posted By Eric Burt
Tracey
In the original Education School Premises Regulations it had a maximum temperature for schools of 27 C for over 10 days per year but this was taken out when the Regulations were up-dated in 1996.
Perhaps this is where the figure originally came from.
Regards,
Eric
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Good afternoon Tracey
Please forgive my initial comment, but - The whole point of removing the prescriptive limits from the Regs was because people used them as acceptable minima. Likewise, there are no maxima prescribed for a similar reason - eg someone with my background may well be able to work reasonably efficiently at the comparatively elevated temperature of 30C, but others who are less conditioned may not. The employer MUST do a suitable risk assessment and define their maxima and minima based upon that risk assessment
We should also remeber that temperature alone is not a reliable indicator of actual ability of the individual to resist heat, the degree of humidity is a major factor in assessing whether a particular temperature range is suitable. There was a considerable, extremely useful, discussion on this topic in this Forum some days ago.
Lastly, we must also consider the kind of individual and the tasks that they must undertake. A heat conditioned, middle-age, manual labourer will probably function effectively for longer at higher temperatures than someone of similar age and physical ability who is required to undertake and process cognitive tasks that require a fair amount of mental agility [like teaching].
If we now also add-in the pupils who are being taught, the acceptable limits should be narrowed even further as young persons have neither the physical nor mental reserves to learn effectively at temperatures much above or below their normal [domestic] range.
There are other issues that must be considered, but these are the fundamentals that apply in all undertakings
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Rob T
When working for a LA many moons ago, we used to advise that if someone was basically sitting at a desk (i.e. computer work etc.) and they were sweating (glowing apparently for females) then it was probably above an acceptable level. However, this didn't mean that people could just leave the workplace - it meant that management had to do something about it e.g. provide fans, cold drinks, periods away from the desk etc. I think that was a reasonable rule of thumb as different individuals have different tolerances.
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Posted By David Mains
In my organisation we have issued temp. guidelines (every other phonecall at this time of year was about the heat). We went with a lower temp of 16 (based on the ACOP) and a high of 25. Although there are recommended limits from the TUC and ILO, the Chartered Institute of Building Service Engineers recommend 19-24 as the range that most people find comfortable.
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Posted By Jack
I thought it was apparent from Tracey's post that she understood the issues ('We have isued guidance - - '). She said a local safety rep had quoted a local authority which had specified a maximum temperature in schools and she thought this was not appropriate. She was asking if anyone else was doing this. So why all the egg sucking responses (and I know there are some honourable exceptions!)
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Posted By Barbaros
Come on Jack, don't just throw out comments like that and leave us all wondering who you meant. Tell us, don't tease.
Tracey's last line was -"Your thoughts on this would be very helpful" and I suspect that is the spirit in which the respondants approached her stated problem. I found the answers useful anyway!
What additional advice would you suggest may be helpful to us all?
Barbaros
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Posted By angela westwood
Hi Tracey
we have similar problems in the industry I work in where we have to consider the health effect of "thermal comfort" on patients as well as the employees.
Short term measures we carry out a thermal comfort risk assessment rather than temperature based as rightly my learned colleagues who have answered your thread have stated it's not just the temperature that matters.
I've thought long and heard about this and with the continuous media warnings re the inconsistent weather patterns the UK has been having over the last few years, particulary with regard to increasingly dry weather it may be that the UK government will need to think out of the box and think about how we adapt to our future climate.
Not tongue in cheek but I'm off to visit my relatives who live in Spain in 2 weeks....they have workmen who have been altering the house they live in and clock off at 2pm every day for a siesta- every thing shuts down at this time. This probably wouldn't work in the UK due to our work/production organisation but the Spanish do know that it's only mad dogs and english who go out in the mid day sun!
Seriously, it's a problem and I think only going to get worse, perhaps we need to lobby to implement acceptable standards of managing work in hot weather, I know the thermal comfort guidance produced by the HSE does not quite help me in producing a cost benefit analyis to support portable air conditioning inside a premise and "siestas" for outside workers
Angela
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Posted By Tracey Thompson
Hi
Thank you for all your responses, they were very helpful. I did in fact find out the LA in question had not issued a maximum temp, but had suggested that when temps started to reach 30 degrees and in excess of, then measures should be implemented and that it would be good practice to have a hot weather plan ready for this rise.
Thanks again
Tracey
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Posted By Frank Rodrigues
I have seen a lot of responses regarding the regs which only give minimum temps, however if you and your TU rep are looking for a policy that addresses thermal comfort then temperature is only one small part of the equation. Humidity is just as important if not more so, high humidity can have quite a pronounced effect on human performance at relatively low temperatures that would normally be considered comfortable. Air movement also has a significant role to play. So if its thermal comfort you are looking to achieve you need to consider all three together.
If you base it on temperature alone then you will still get complaints on humid days when the air temperature could be as low as 20C. Then its probable that some will say the thermometer is not properly calibrated.
Also if you go down this road then you may need to look at a package of measures to imporve thermal comfort rather than be faced with the prospect of the workforce heading off for the cooling sea breeze of the nearest beach.
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