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#1 Posted : 06 July 2005 20:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob Malcolm Could anybody please give me some sensible advice with regards to inviting 15 year old school students into a factory environment for a two week work experience programme i.e. are we required to inform our insurers first, is there a limit to the amount of hours that they can work in any one day, what level of supervision is required, etc. ? I have been informed that they will only be expected to perform light duties but what qualifies as light duties? We are a manufacturer of electrical transformers and the bulk of our activities involve hand soldering and other activities involving flammable,toxic, harmful, irritant substances. All comments most welcome. Thanks Rob
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#2 Posted : 06 July 2005 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Rob, Rather than trying to arrange it yourself, try to get involved under the aegis of your local careers company. Thay should be able to provide you with work experience specific advice. But as far as Insurance is concerned, yes contact your provider to ensure they have no clauses that may invalidate your cover. The big companies generally have no problems, but we have received anecdotal evidence that smaller brokers may quibble.
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#3 Posted : 06 July 2005 22:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Rob Close supervision would be required if they were to be working with any of those hazardous substances you mention; see MHSWR Reg 19. Paul
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#4 Posted : 07 July 2005 08:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Stone Get hold of a copy of HSG 199 "Managing health and safety on work experience". Should help give you some pointers as to what organisers woul;d look for Ian
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#5 Posted : 07 July 2005 10:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eric Burt Rob Just in case you don't know....... The Health and Safety (Training for Employment) Regulations 1990 state that children on work experience are to be regarded as employees for the purposes of HASAWA. Hence, information, training, instruction, PPE, eye-sight tests for DSE etc etc Ther flip side is that the children also have section 7 HASAWA responsibilities as well (which they should have been told about by the school prior to going on work experience). Hope this helps, Regards, Eric
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#6 Posted : 07 July 2005 13:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM Rob Working in a Local Authority, I know that there are by-laws governing this type of scenario. They are worth looking at. Michael
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#7 Posted : 07 July 2005 21:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob Malcolm Thanks to everyone for your responses. I'm a little concerned about this one as the company Ops Director only informed me about it last night before I left work. They plan to allow this young person to start work on Monday without any plan of what she is going to be doing or any consideration for a risk assessment etc. Ian, thanks for the info on HSG 199 "Managing health and safety on work experience". must look that one out. Michael, I have reason to believe that we are obliged to inform the local authorities prior to the commencing of the starting date. As you mentioned that you work for a Local Authority could you please mention the by-laws governing this type of scenario that I should be looking out for. Must crack on .......running all the way! Rob
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#8 Posted : 07 July 2005 21:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett I know that this won't help you directly Rob; but isn't it strange that in other threads we're talking of the need to introduce young persons to "risk" so that they learn that life isn't totally safe and here we are making sure that all the tangle of disparate legislation is in place to ensure that the young person isn't actually exposed to anything prescribed by "the law". I have no problem with that except that there's just so much of the d**n stuff to pull together from so many different places first. And, does all this stuff apply to the "paper deliverer" and corner shop? Apparently not around here! There appears to be a cosmic intervention that exempts these situations and makes them invisible to the LA enforcers. If those who make the pronouncements about sensible risk management could deign to actually make it a little easier to make it happen, we could all do something more productive with our time than chase up these not quite connected strands of legislation. It's getting late and I'm missing my Horlicks! Frank Hallett
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#9 Posted : 08 July 2005 08:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By IanD Hi Rob, You will have to carry out a risk assessment under the MHWSR 99, and ensure that any work allocated to the young person is not beyond their physical and mental capabilities, having considered the maturity and the behaviour that can be reasonably expected from a young person. This will probably the first time in working environment. The assessment should be concluding that they would not be involved in heavy manual handling, and certainly not involved with handling hazardous substances. For a two week trail they will not have recived the training required for both these aspects. I would not allow a young person to operate any machinery on the shop floor either. You will defiantly have to ensure adequate supervision and mentoring of the young person. A bit restrictive, but if you think about why these regulations were deemed necessary i.e. students (YTS) etc getting killed or seriously injured within the first few days of work experience,
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#10 Posted : 08 July 2005 09:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eric Burt Frank I have been involved in arranging placements for work experience, YTS etc etc and I don't share your view about not exposing young people to risk. In all fairness, the legislation and guidance is fairly straightforward and basically says what we already know - treat youngsters as you would your own employees insofar as health and safety is concerned; give some thought to any special risks they may face due to their inexperience and do something about it. My 16 year old son recently went to a car plant for his work experience and I was most impressed with the way in which his health and safety was taken care of. They made sure that he experienced as many parts of the plant as possible and certainly didn't keep him away from any hazardous areas. You are right in that work experience should be a true reflection of work including exposure to risk and the guidance / legislation is merely reminding us (and informing those who don't know) about the sensible ways of making sure that the youngster isn't harmed. Thanks to my sons excellent work experience at the car plant he has now decided he wants to become a pilot! (figure that one out)! Regards, Eric
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#11 Posted : 08 July 2005 09:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Adams We also have this scenario. The placement organisation is likely to come and vet you. We aslo do a specific young persons risk assessment for each young person specific to the area they are going to and assign them to a mentor who is responsible for their training and supervision.
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#12 Posted : 08 July 2005 10:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jerry Sanderson Rob, Have you had a pre placement vetting visit on behalf of the placement organiser.We used to do this for all our pupils who went out on work experience and still don't allow pupils to go to unvetted placements. The vetting visit would cover Insurance issues, basic safety and welfare provision and risk assessment (ours used to leave the employer with a specific young persons risk assessment covering the placement tasks as many small employers found this a problem). The visit also allowed the employer to ask any questions they might be concerned about. If you have not had such a visit I would advise that you contact your Local Education Department Safety Adviser to find out what their policy on work experience placements and pre vetting is. Regards. Jerry.
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#13 Posted : 08 July 2005 11:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM Rob Each Local Authority will have its own version of these Byelaws which are based on the Employment of Children 1999 which came into force on 3rd March 2000. They cover children up to but not over school age. Ask your LA for a copy or get a copy of the Employment of Children 1999. Then there is the Risk Assessment for Young Persons between 16 and 18 where such things as maturity, sense of mortality etc. come into play as they look at things in a totally different way to us more mature people!! Hope this is of use. Michael
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#14 Posted : 11 July 2005 14:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Clifton Rob I am a H & S Adviser working for an Education Business partnership (EBP) dealing with Work Experience for year 10 students (15 year olds). All Work Experience providing employers should be "approved" prior to W E taking place. This involves a visit fron an Adviser who will conduct a Risk Assessment on the activities of the employer along with welfare facilities, hours of work, prohibition from certain substances/machinery/activities, etc. The Risk Assessment is aimed at "young people below the minimum school leaving age". I strongly suggest that you contact your local EBP and the school that the student attends to arrange a visit from an Adviser. This is important for your organisation in the event of an accident/incident. Let me know the location of your organisation and I will try to identify your local EBP. Adrian
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