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Posted By Niel Fagan
I have a manager who being an ex-forces non-com-off thinks he can train anyone.
Particularly in the fit and wearing of particulate and gas respiratory protection.
This is a basic "how it fits" in 5 minutes lecture. NO face fit/sealing checks are performed and he holds no formal recognised training certification.
Where do we stand with this legally/morally?
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Posted By J Knight
I think you maybe stand on the scaffold with the noose around your neck. Training has to be 'effective', as it says in the act. I'm not an RPE expert, and I don't know off the top of my head whether there are fixed competencies for RPE trainers (at least one of the contributors to this board will know!!), but it sounds very obvious that the training you describe is well short of 'effective', so I think you need to take some action here,
John
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Posted By Jasonjg
I think but cannot guarantee that face-fitting is now a compulsory requirement where certain agents are involved.
I have images of your training sessions lol
Gas Gas Gas everyone hits the floor.
On a slightly more serious note ex forces personnel know all too well about other implications when wearing mask i.e. movement and other equipment worn etc.
If face fitting is now required you get the best of both worlds by having him sent on a course for his approach is probably better than others.
Gas Gas Gas if only we COULD have CS chambers on company sites.
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lol I am having one of those days and its only Tuesday.
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Posted By David J Jones
Gas gas gas!, been there, done that.
However, was advised by an RPE supplier (in my last job) that ex forces wouln't cut the mustard as far as the fit test regs were concerned. His company offered, and gave (FOC), a fit test training session using a hood-and-spray system coupled with a number of exercises for the RPE wearer to carry out. Only when the trainer was satisfied that I and my colleague had achieved a satisfactory level of competence were we issued with a "Fit testers" certificate.
This proved it's worth as I later had cause to fail a person who sported light facial growth (no, he wasn't a werewolf!). He was surprised but grateful for the fit test session as he saw the danger of poor RPE fit.
I think the regs may just make reference to some form of competence although I don't have them to hand.
David
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Posted By Descarte
If masks are being used to control nusiance dust eg. if sweeping up in a dusty warehouse then a face fit test would not be required. However if the masks are being used as a line of defence against exposure to harmful vapours, dusts, gases or mists then you need to be able to ensure a adequate seal. I remember a few years ago this could be done by placing a rubber seal over the filter (in half and full face versions) and if it sealed to your face as you sucked in then it was probably adequate, but now I fear it would be a more in depth assessment.
I guess it would depend on the situation, is this breathing apparatus, are they going into a toxic / lethal environment / oxygen deficient/enriched, if so I would say a big yes to "proper" fit testing, if it is a secondary control measure over LEV and good handling practices where personal monitoring has shown concentrations at the breathing zone to be less than the exposure limit of a low hazard material and you are only wearing a P3 mask, then making sure there is a good seal around the face with training and instruction maybe adequate, your call.
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Posted By Jim Walker
You need to refer to COSHH regs ASAP.
Sounds to me like you are in major (pun intended) breach.
Go to HSE site and search "face Fit" should convince you how serious and difficult this issue is.
We get specialists in to do this, as we cannot maintain competencies in house.
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Posted By Jon Bradburn
Clearly there is a definate lack of competance regarding the original post.
I would tend to disagree regarding competence levels of ex forces in this area. Having read the HSE operational circular link in Jims post.
I would say it is probable that a Forces qualified NBC instructor would have the required competance to conduct Fit testing (at least to the qualitative level)These tests are basic and very similar to my experience. Any ex instructors out there feel free to correct me or elaborate further.
Army courses have for some time, and now even more so are being closely geared towards NVQ standards.
If you have these in house skills then use them - just make sure the paper qualification matches what the guy (or girl) says he can do!
This is not an area I have previously given enough thought to and has identified a gap in our arrangements for which I am greatful - If only I had done that course! Can anyone recommend a decent face fit tester / trainer?
Regards
jon
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Posted By Jurgen Fenney
Neil,
As an ex forces person we deal with many matters that we have to instruct on and have probably a better understanding of the NBC enviroment that was preached to us on a yearly basis.
Your point into really informing the whole community that your manger is doing it wrong in your words i would say is not helpful.
Why dont you consult with the management maybe take him a solution and be pro active rather than make him look a fool on here.
Remember an employee has a obligation to point things out if he or she feels the needs. I agree no-one is perfect and if we were to go down the road of somebody fitting masks,ear plugs and maybe glasses some training organisations will be getting a good wage out of us for training.
To summarise take your concerns to the management, put it into writing or just ask for the fitting proceedure that must come with any new RPE product, maybe you might think that is better that what is being taught?
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