Posted By Dee I would be grateful if members could advise me of their opinions/experiences of the two systems. I am aware that 18001 is yet to become a certified system and that the BSC audit does appear to have more commercial benefits but before I contact the organisations I wanted to hear of any 'real-life' experiences. The company I am looking at this for is quite young, with about 25 personnel but expanding. It is a design company with a workshop facility within the energy sector. Any comments/thoughts gratefully received.

Posted By Paul Craythorne Many years ago when I worked in enforcement a colleague and I served 14 Improvement Notices on a company that had a 3 Star Award within the BSC's 5 Star Award scheme. Now, as a contract insurance surveyor I would give greater value to an OHSAS18001 certificate than a BSC 5 Star Award. This is purely my opinion and I don't wish to annoy BSC or any other similar organisation as they do a very good job within the field of H&S but you have to ask yourself if an organisation who is looking to get a regular income from you (and who is not subject to UKAS scrutiny) is likely to be as intrusive and thorough as an 18001 audit certification body? Perhaps it is just me being a bit cynical and suspicious. Regards, Paul Craythorne

Posted By Jay Joshi I worked with BSC from 1998 to 2003. All I can say is that as is the case with several organisations, they move on and become more professional and customer focused. The BSC of today is not the BSC of the past. Just look how far it has gone in its new Diploma on Occupational Health and Safety management. The "new" Diploma has got QCA & IOSH accreditation and IIRSM recognition. The same applies to all its services. Also, there is no proof that organisations with OHSASA 18001 certification have never received some form of enforcement action from the HSE.

Posted By Andrew Beveridge Merv, Yep! We are the holder of 1 star. It was part of the requirement when I joined the business in Feb 05 that they had an audit carried out to give me a bench mark to improve from. (I was surprised they reached 1 star) Suffice to say, plenty of room for improvement. Regards Andy

Posted By Dave Wilson BSC paper work audit trail exercise etc etc but is that how it is really done?? or is it a PR exercise to get on clients lists??? Quality/Env/Safety systems - same thing really unless you are externally audited and I mean audited not a couple of hours going through paperwork will the 'real' value which a company puts on safety etc Does a BSC or ISO auditor sit in on a safety meeting with the shop floor? suggest not! Auditors are kept away from anyone or anything which may be seen as a non-compliance, I understand the reasons for this but it is not really the 'TRUE' ethos and picture of how management really view safety!!!

Posted By David Ballard There are some interesting comments here that warrant a reply. Firstly to John Lewis, don’t be afraid to make constructive criticisms of us, we only shoot down blimps. Secondly, to Paul Craythorne, on your own admission you are allowing an experience of many years ago to colour your judgement of things today. Are you suggesting that most 18001 audit certification bodies are not hungry for profits? Think again! The BSC is a charity, and has no shareholders to worry about. Do have a good look at us and see what we have achieved. The BSC Five Star Audit today is aimed only partly at compliance: a large part of the auditor’s report is devoted to ways of improving performance, and this is true even for those organisations that achieve five stars. As a matter of interest for Merv Newman, (who doesn’t seem to know the difference between a G&T and a glass of wine), there are many companies that get less than three stars, including no stars at all. But we do not present certificates to companies with no stars, so you won’t see them in the newspapers. And that is another important point, because the grading system is an encouragement to organisations to climb up the ladder – continuous improvement. The publicity that we can achieve is itself a means of making companies work harder to improve themselves. Five Star organisations can compete for a Sword of Honour, and that really does turn the spotlight on to safety performance. Finally, a major insurer has accepted that our system reduces risk, and as a result companies that are successful in our audit can get reductions of up to 25% from their premiums, potentially a saving of far more than the cost of the audit.

Posted By Paul Craythorne David, I have not let my experience of many years ago colour my judgement. I was simply stating my opinion which is not necessarily right and not necessarily wrong it is just my opinion. Of course 18001 certification bodies work for a profit and there may well be some better than others. However, the fact that OHSAS18001 may at some point become an ISO standard and the fact that it integrates quite well with ISO14001 and ISO9001 means that it is my preferred method. I am sure that the BSC 5 Star award is a very robust audit process and as I stated in my first response I do not wish to annoy or upset anyone. I merely put my opinion on here for the originator of the posting to read and take on board or discard as he sees fit. Regards, Paul Craythorne

Posted By Paul Craythorne Jeff, Once a company has implemented the requirements of OHSAS18001 they are then audited against that standard which, in effect, is an audit of the company's management system. Just because the BSC have a raft of audit questions doesn't mean that it is any different. The question set that they use must be derived from a standard against which they can benchmark. Regards, Paul Craythorne

Posted By J Knight Yes, 18001 is a standard to be audited against, and yes, I also use QSA and like it very much, it's been updated to reflect much of 18001 while still retaining its core requirement of compliance with HSG65, John