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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Help please!
If a DSE user is not happy with their fully adjustable chair is the company within it's rights to ask the DSE user to provide a medical note (ie from a physio) before a new chair is provided even though the employee does have a medical complaint, they just don't find that chair comfortable?
Regards
Jennifer
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
sorry meant to say 'does NOT currently' have a medical problem
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Posted By Mark Bywater
Jennifer,
I would say that the chair is "work equipment" and as such should be the same as PPE, machinery etc. If it needs adjusting to be suitable and sufficient then the employer should alter / adjust / change it.
What if your safety shoes were uncomfortable........would you want to wear them? I suggest not.
Beware here of having this person resign and citing you (the employer) in a constructive dismissal claim.
You should do all you can to accommodate all employees...remember DDA 1995 too!
Regards,
Mark
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thanks for that Mark -
Basically the problem I have is that the employee concerned has rejected a fully adjustable chair on the basis of comfort to the back. However the company has requested that a medical note be provided to explain what is in essence a subjective response to the chair by the employee. Can they do this? If not what should they do instead? Try out a number of chairs until the employee finds one that is suitable?
Don't get me wrong I am not trying to be difficult I am just trying to advise the company on what they can and can't do.
Regards
Jennifer
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Jennifer
Be very careful about the implications of what you are doing.
1. The first point is a general one. If you are prepared to allow her, what qualifications does he/she have in ergonomics? As a registered ergonomics, I have been amazed and horrified about the judgments I have observed physiotherapists and occupational therapists make about DSE and other workplace ergonomic issues, on the grounds that they revealed mistakes and worse about ergonomic design. So, unless a physio has at least a diploma in ergonomics recognised by The Ergonomics Society, why accept his/her judgment any more than that of anyone else?
2. The second issue is an important procedural one. Is the physio going to inspect the chair? If so, are you going to allow him/her inspect the chairs of every other user or operator of DSE?
3. The third issue concerns your method of assessing and managing risks to DSE users and operators. If you have conducted a thorough risk assessment, you will have shown each user and operator how to evaluate and adjust their chair, withour relying on a physio or anyone else without a thorough professional understanding of ergonomics. If you haven't conducted a thorough risk assessment, theirin lies the root problem.
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thanks again for the quick responses -
We have conducted a Risk Assessment and we have made a number of recommendations - basically all of the straightforward ones like the setup of the desk, position of monitor, etc etc.
The chair remains an issue though. We have shown the employee how to adjust the chair, why they should adjust the chair and how to judge if the chair if the chair is correctly positioned. The employee has done all of these things but still finds the chair uncomfortable on the back.
So what next? Has the company been resonable or is it duty bound to go all the way, call in an ergonimist and provide any chair recommended by the ergonomist? This may sound OTT but the company is genuinely concerned about opening a can of worms?
Is it time to seek legal advice!
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Posted By Salus
Just do everything that a reasonable employer would do, ask them to try other chairs in the office,make sure they know how to adjust the chairs.And stick to your guns.
This person obviously does not go to the cinema, get a cab,visits coffe bars or cafes or can sit in their car for to long.
They will want the door handles changed next.
And how many office workers wear safety shoes?
Come on you safety people lets get rid of this type of worker once and for all
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Posted By Ron Impey
Having a comfortable chair is important. A worker may be sitting on it maybe 7 hours every working day. Can otherwise quite seriously affect job satisfaction and productivity.
What we do is organise for the member of staff to visit the showroom of a nearby manufacturer of a wide range of ergonomic office chairs. They can spend time trying out what is available till a chair is found that they find acceptable. Usually then no more complaints, everyone is happy.
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Posted By Pamela Marshall
Just a thought - could it be that chair feels uncomfortable because the person isn't use to sitting in the correct position or in a chair that is the right dimensions etc.
Most people slouch in their chairs and when you sit properly it feels uncomfortable at first.
Maybe the chair is uncomfortable because the person can't sit comfortably in their normal (maybe incorrect) position.
Good Luck
Pamela
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Posted By Mark Talbot
He/she deserves to be comfortable and you are obliged to believe them when they say they are not - or accept the consequences.
If I go to my doctor, he will give me a letter saying what I have told him in this type of case.
Be pragmatic. Ask your legal bod how much it will cost to even show up at a tribunal to defend constructive dismissal, or a personal injury claim.
We normally have a choice of two or three different chairs and tell people that they can try each if they want to.
In the end, you are obliged to supply equipment that does not injure the user. Discomfort CAN be the first step of injury to a back.
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Posted By Ron Impey
This area is very subjective and there may be a psychological element to the situation.
It is important that it is not simply dismissed automatically. Adopting a flexible and caring approach, and showing a willingness to perhaps spend a little extra on a chair can pay dividends in the long term.
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Posted By Kevin Walker
Keiran, I cannot agree with you more.
We are constantly barraged by ergonomic experts who in real life are just physiotherapists and certainly not medical doctors. Most have no training at all in ergonomics, they come in and tell the worker that they should have this type of chair without specifics why. The best one I heard was that the chair must be fully adjustable, and provide lumbar support (although this was from a renowned oestopath).
Strangely enough most chairs do. They however will always recommend chairs costing upwards of £500.
It all makes little difference except that it destroys your budget. My suggestion is to have a small selection of alternative chairs get them to find the one they feel is the most comfortable. If they have a choice they are more likely to be happy.
Don't go down the medical note line as if there is no medical complaint there will be one soon. A doctor will write something and not know what the suitation is and the same with the physio.
Kevin
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Posted By Jennifer Kelly
As always thanks to everyone who has responded. As has been commented many times before this site is a great forum for getting a range of opinions and all of you have made valuable points which will, I hope, help me to formulate an adequate response to this issue.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I've seen many different chairs sold for use with DSE and observed considerable variation in the shape and condition of the seat and back. Let the employee try some with more support and curvature conforming with human shape and ensure that the back is adjusted to provide the correct support in the right areas - many that I have come across have not had the back raised by the user to an appropriate height.
That said, there are also people who would really prefer to hold out for an executive style padded revolving arm-chair that they can slouch back in rather than the right tool for the job and their health and safety - presumably the aspiring managing director syndrome.
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Posted By Alison Melrose
Jennifer
Have sent you an e-mail direct (from a qualified ergonomist's point of view!)
Alison
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