Posted By Jon B Maybe its me but surely one of the usual - Moral, Finnancial, Legal - arguments should get through at some point? No matter how I put my case my manager completely fails to accept he is doing anything wrong and that commercial reasons are enough justification for doing nothing. I have been safety officer for over two years now, I self funded myself to get my NEBOSH cert because to company didn't deem it necessary. Now I am increasingly ignored by my site manager - worse still the MD backs him every time. Take for example LEV - a number of years ago we had air sampling showing our dust (grain and flour) levels were borderline on the then MEL's. 18 months ago we moved site and a decision was made - because room size was smaller that we would need dust extraction. It was however decided that we would buy second user units and have someone else install them (I pointed out that they would require commissioning tests to ensure performance etc). The tests were never carried out and after 8 months of stating the case I finally resorted to asking HSE for help. (not an approach I relished nor would recommend - tho' I did pre warn my employer of my intention) The result being an Improvement Notice to get the test done and a snub from my MD who did not speak to me for nearly 2 months. Testing was completed in March and the I.N. was signed off - however both units had failed the test and require significant work to bring upto scratch. The work was quoted for - found expensive so a decison was made to check The DSEAR assessment before proceeding - more expense so work was put off pending 'further review'. I knew we would need air sampling to confirm effectiveness, this was accepted on the basis that remedial action was done first to ensure the systems were ready for seasonal work in August. (I recommended delaying air sampling until this time so as to get a realistic figure). I was recently told that due to financial reasons the work cannot be carried out at the moment - As a stop gap staff shall use RPE. Picking up on a recent post I highlighted the implications of relying on RPE - costs, fit testing etc. Unbelievably I am still told no money shall be forthcoming for the immediate future (a new contract may be round the corner - lets wait and see!). Worse - due to other demands on expenditure the matter must be referred back to the H&S committee for prioritisation (this despite the matter being a dated point on our HSE plan, and also accepted as priority (in the managers absence) at last months meeting) Inevitably this places another months delay on any action. THings came to a head today when I was told I can no longer discuss H&S issues with the site manager and must pass everything through the committee unless of a 'significant risk' nature. Furthermore he hinted that because if I left?? the company would lose my 'ethusiasm' (not skills or competence) he would like to see the committee due more. Now I may be getting paranoid and I agree spreading the comittment can be a good thing I get the impression he may have another motive, after all they are not 'backing up' other staff skills just in case someone leaves. I am verging on taking time off because of this, the only thing holding me backing is knowing if I go the situation will become far worse and any time out I take will jepordise my future prospects. I realise I am not fully competent in all areas but I am committed to doing a good job and I am the best the company has - they will not invest futher in this area nor even pay for a consultant. What else can I do / am I missing the plot? Jon

Posted By Frank Hallett You have all of our sympathy Jon - been there, suffered that, left and improved my life immensely [honest]! I have one observation and two questions for you to consider. 1st You mention that decisions on prioritisation have to be referred to the safety committee. Why? The Safety Committee should not have that kind of executive function, it's the Boards responsibility to manage, not the Safety Committee. 2nd Why are you still there? 3rd Have you considered suing for constructive dismissal? If even half of your tale is objective and true [no I'm not being insulting] you have a clear case of the employer breaching so many duties that some of them must stick. Frank Hallett

Posted By MichaelM Jon Don't give up. I was like this for a number of years and managed to push some effective points forceably down the throats of those who didn't want to accept H&S was essential. During this time, I got my NVQ, got more experience, applied for jobs that interested me and then eventually got a new job that I am enjoying. If the HSE come back and check on progress the s*** will hit the fan and it won't be sticking to you. Just make sure you are documenting your recommendations and if this is via e-mail keep yours and any responses as evidence. Michael

Posted By MC Hi Jon, Don't feel down! Keep your chin up! You sound very competent and conscientious. As previously stated, most HSE professionals have experienced such ignorance and lack of responsibility. Some options for you: 1) keep applying for other jobs, until then let them be, relax put your feet up and as previously stated keep documentation of all correspondence with mr. saddam (your site manager or the md). do the minimum you can. 2) tribunal: like you said it's messy - but if you want you can look at it from the angle of stress as well, again back your claim up with facts. Consult one of those compensation.claims lawyers - we might as well use them for once instead of preparing against them - you could always have a free initial consultation with them. 3) major stress control technique - don't get stressed out by what's not under your control. I am not saying this as hearsay - I am in a similar situation, i.e. company moving backwards and now a moron, lacking the most basic of people skills, has been put in charge who used to be the biggest hindrance to H&S before. I applied to another job, was successful, off on holiday soon, and then onto new and greener pastures. until then I am off for a snooze. Ps point of my long winded reply is apply for other jobs and go as soon as you can. I have Nebosh Gen Cert and less than two year's experience but I found another position - so you can too! Best of luck, MC

Posted By Mark Talbot Some good advice there. I will add my twopenneth too ... It is difficult to go to any interview with a tribunal pending. It is difficult to pay the bills without a salary. It is impossible remain in post as you describe. So, back off, do what you can and leave the guilt to others. As an employee you have the same rights as others to complain to the HSE about standards, read the IOSH membership code at http://www.iosh.co.uk/fi.../about/CodeofConduct.pdf This might give you some comfort, but in the end we are all human and you are doing a job ... i.e. work for pay. If you disagree with the work, leave. You are not a missionary. If at any time you want to discuss a safety matter with someone on an informal basis, please feel free to email me.

Posted By Jon B Thank you all again for the words of support and wisdom. As the threads point out the decisions I need to make are not easy from any point of view. I am starting to formulate a plan, including making sure all my evidence is squared away and I have a portolio of work i have been, including the stuff they couldn't be bothered to introduce. I can then seek advice about constructive dismissal without committing myself. In the meantime i intend to summarise the breaches for a final time - email threads can be a little messy especially over several months. I can then seek intervention from enforcement agency if nothing is forthcoming. Am I an eternal optimist or a fool? Steve and others - funny you should mention Stress - about the time we had our visit another key player in the comapny was off with stress, this caused a major flap and the company rushed out and bought 2 of the Gucci HSE stress management packs (about £100 worth)>this guy returned to work, and nothing further has been done. I have been told to leave the packs and a decison will be made later, I cannot initiate any programme that does not directly relate to the HSE visit unless of a 'significant risk' I may be ignorant here but isn't stress now one of the keys areas of concern alongside MH and Fall from height, therefore a significant risk? Why is stress not a reportable injury / illness? when it is clearly work related and 3 day+ time lost or have I misinterpreted Riddor? Once again thanks Jon

Posted By Jon B Well I have took in all the advice offred by you all. In particular some sound advice via email and phone. We have had a visit from the MD today, spent a fair while drafting a letter clearly identfying the breaches - chapter and verse - and what we had (or had not) done which constituted the breach. I tried to be as factual as possible detailing possible consequences. I went on to state my case regarding my position / annual review and support etc. all this in a private and confidential letter. I just managed to catch the MD who was leaving. He quickly read it and said he would need to seek legal advice. Ten minutes later he was back on site, and dragged my manager into the conference room, ten minutes after that I was asked to attend. The outcome? He immediatelty suspended me from all H & S duties ordering me to maintain my supervisory position only! Glad I took in a witness, just wondering now, if I am not handling safety issues then who is? Can he actually suspend me like that? How do they discriminate against my responsibility as safety officer against those of and employee and supervisor? Oh well CAB and tribunal on the horizon, anyone know a good soliciter? Regards Jon

Posted By steven bentham You are much better out. Some advice; don't walk out of a job and try the constructive dismissal - its a long haul and in the future your present boss can always repay with crap references. Spend your energy looking for another job [when you get a better one you will look back and know you have done the right thing.] Treat it as a character building experience!! Good luck

Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste Jon, Join the club....all the issues you mention and the .... 'just tick the boxes and get on with it....' regarding audits and my favourite... 'your the H&S manager, your the one thats responsible' relating to the Policy rewrite that has the main man listed and the senior 'management' team with relative responsibilities! Take my advice..... I've given up worrying what people think of me personally and H&S in general, I do my job as well as i can, have a clean consience and look for other employment... Philby'

Posted By el nino I don't think we will get a statement from Jon's employer with their side of events. We can't launch into a full investigation of the facts. We can only offer support and help to a member who appears to need it. El Nino

Posted By J Knight Numpty - someone with an empty head, has to be said in a west coast urban scottish accent, 'a numpty heed'. Agree with el nino on this one, we have to offer support rather than sit in judgment, this isn't a court, John

Posted By Mike Craven Two pints of lager, a gin and tonic, and a diet coke please, Michael!!! (The old ones are the best and it is Friday!)

Posted By Jez Corfield Jon, A difficult situation, I keep a 'due dilligence' file for all of those incidents where my advice is ignored, I print it out regularly and keep it at home, whilst the MD and your line manager less than appreciate your work, is there a 'board' to which they answer? Or a national trade association to which they belong? A well written and financially focused annual H&S report might just start to swing things in your favour, HSG(65) is a good base for a report and is itself written with a business focus. If possible focus on a project where you can stress the cost saving elements of safety, (goods handling is usually a good one) to try and drive the business benefits of safety. Its a long-shot, but it might make life bearable until you get work with someone who deserves you. I have a copy of a short-ish HSG(65) annual H&S report if you (and only you) want to see how straightforward it is. Jez

Posted By Jon B Thank you all again for the supportive comments. I take on board the comments regarding the possible inappropriate nature of some of what I have said and accept the advice in the manner intended. As there is now a probablity of legal action I shall refrain from comments that could be predjucial. Suffice to say I have checked the facts to the best of my ability and cross referenced these with contributors of far more experience than I. Though disappointed I am now comforatble with pursuing the course of action now forced upon me. I will however let you know of any outcome in due course. Of those that have contacted me direct by email, I have replied to all of you. Unfortunately I have recieved 2 message delivery failures and despite resending I have had no success. I would just like to publicly thank you both for your words of advice. For you both - I have secured my portfolio of work for my future education. Unfortunately I live in the north east so the south coast possibility in a non starter - thanks again. Kindest regards Jon