Posted By Paul L Williams Dear all, I recently had an incident on site where an employee reported he sprained his back to an extent where he took more than 3-days off work. On investigation it was found the he had wiggled a flexable pipe which had become caught on metal work. As he wiggled the pipe it immediately became loose, however he reported that at this instant he suffered a back injury. The employee has recently had manual handling training so knew the correct posture to take, there was no weight in the pipe so it is unlikely it would cause an injury. The accident happened at 8.30am on a Monday morning and the employee carried on working for the rest of the day, afterwhich he went off work sick. It is my opinion that the task he was undertaking could not result such an injury. It is likely the injury was present and this was "the straw that broke the camels back". I am not going to report this as an over 3-day RIDDOR as I dont believe what he was doing was the root cause of the injury. What do you guys and gals think? Thanks Paul Williams

Posted By Fornhelper Paul, I don't think there is any way that you cannot report the injury...although this was the 'straw that broke the camels back' the activity that 'put on the final straw' was still work related and as such is reportable. Appreciate that it was not caused by a 'traumatic, one off event' but is akin to a care home / health worker being injured as a result of poor moving and handling techniques over a long period of time. I would certainly report it if it resulted in an 'over 3 day' injury FH

Posted By Bill Fisher Paul In very simple terms investigate the "accident". If your findings recognise that the employee has an injured back but your investigation does not support it hapening in the workplace the do not report it - on F2508. However write to your local inspector state the facts, include your investigation report and state why you are not reporting it. But given the employee's assertions this allows you to show that you are dealing with it openly. In summary acknowledge the employee's situation but don't take ownership of an accident your investigations cannot support. Regards Bill

Posted By Mark Talbot Report it. Include your doubts as stated by others, but you may have to accept that you are not a physician (or maybe you are?) and therefore the injured person gets the benefit of the doubt unless you take professional advice after a consultation.

Posted By Stephen Boardman Accident at work, regardless of what your gut feeling is must be reported.

Posted By Bill Fisher Lumpy Just because the employee alleges he injured himself at work does not automatically mean it happened there, as I am sure you will agree. However if an investigation lends weight to a significant doubt then why report (F2508) it. I stand by my advice regarding the letter with full and frank details in these circustances. But remember if the investigation was inconclusive I would then formally report. Regards Bill

Posted By J Knight Can I make a couple of comments here. Just because you report it does not mean you are stating that any particular version of events is true. Just because it was reported as an accident at work does not mean that any compensation case will stand, if one is lodged. The process of reporting accidents is bound up in criminal law (HASAWA); compensation is civil law. Sorry to have to labour basic stuff, but one process does not necessarily have any bearing on the other. In other words, don't worry about any civil action, worry instead about breaching criminal law, John

Posted By H Klinkenberg Paul I most definately agree that the accident must be reported, however I would add that you must be very careful making any statement regarding the nature of the claimed injury that could come back to haunt you. Too often such opinions are expressed and then they appear in court in a different sort of claim, e.g. stress damages. Unfortunately it is possible, even if unlikely, that this injury occured exactly as your employee stated. I have worked on a number of stress related claims (my professional area) where an employee claims to have been bullied, harrassed, undermined or constructively dismissed following a dispute with their employer over a claimed accident. However much it irritates and angers, keep to the procedures and ensure you know your organisation's stress policies and procedures. Also ensure that your stress risk assessments are up to date just in case the stress card is played. Remember that research has indicated that an estimated 50% of all accidents and errors in the workplace have stress as an influencing element. If you want some info on this send me a personal message to stress@klinkenberg.co.uk

Posted By Paul L Williams Thanks to everyone who responded. Your replies have been an interesting read and they have given me the information I needed to make my decision about reporting the accident. Thanks again Paul Williams

Posted By Caroline Probart Paul I am actually writing about one of your postings some time ago. "Contractor control database" If possible, please could you forward me a copy of this and save me the gruelling task of producing one from scratch. Many Thanks Caroline

Posted By garyh Sigh. This type of question (should I ? shoudn't I report this?) comes up a lot. Many people state, as a matter of course "if it happened at work, then report it". IN MY VIEW THIS APPROACH IS WRONG. As Safety "Managers" we "Manage" safety. If all that is required is to read the regs and comply with the letter of the regs in a cautious manner, then why does our employer need us? A clerk, or even a computer programme could give this advice. Our role is to manage these issues. If I genuinely believed (and hopefully could back it up with evidence) that it was not work related, I would not report it. I would record my logic in case of future liability, of course. Incidentally I have worked in the past for 2 very well known "Safety Excellent" chemical companies in the past, and this was their approach. As regards reporting it informally via your insepector. they often say "report it via RIDDOR anyway, but I won't get too excited". However RIDDOR reports are seen by "Head Office" and Insurers etc as signs of poor safety performance.............. So there you have it. Don't report things because the book says so, do it because you believe it is reportable. If you don't believe it is repotable and can back this up, DON'T REPORT. Remember - the very essence of our profession is that we are paid to Manage Safety, not just qoute from the regs.

Posted By garyh Peter is missing my point, I am talking in general terms. Note that in this specific case the author didn't think that the injury was the actual cause of the LTI. However, as I stated previously, we ae paid to make judgements, not just to quote from the regs.

Posted By Adam Jackson All the above commenting that it should be reported are correct, but I would also question the assumption that as the pipe has no weight in it it is unlikely to cause an injury. I have had two long-term back injuries this year so far, one caused by someone picking up an egg and one by someone lifting a 3kg package. Weight may be a factor but absence of significant weight does not eliminate the handing risk therefore can't be used as a justification for not classing it as a work-related injury.