Posted By DavidHaddon
Under CAWR the dutyholder is the person/party responsible for maintenance of the property. Check the lease!

Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thanks for these responses.

Let me just stress the person in question is not daunted by asbestos just questioning who is responsible for doing this and consequently who will be paying for this to be undertaken.

Posted By TBC
Yes could depend on the lease, but how long has the current tenant been on the premises?
Why wasn't a survey carried out a long time ago? The requirement has been in force for some time and the landlords usually chase up to have surveys done or arrange to get them done themselves. Councils - their EHOs are usually hot on the trail of the small to medium sized companies to comply with this and that, but too good at getting their own house in order anyway.

Posted By anon1234
You could just get some laborourer to rip any suspect asbestos out and through it around the local area.

Only joking of course - however doing this may not result in any action from the HSE.

I reported a demolition activity (CDM) that was taking place near my house to the HSE as the property clearly had asbestos containing materials as part of the build and the demolition contractor was knocking building down without any controls - asbestos going everywhere potentially affecting demolition workers, workers in adjacent buildings, residents in adjacent housing, passing public etc. Action from HSE - none to date and the building is now completely demolished

Posted By Hugh Allcock-Green
Absolutely right wrt duty holder responsibilities.

The difficulties often stem from changes in lease. If the Landlord changes tenant with only momentary lapse of the old lease it is highly likely that the Landlord has not carried out a survey. At the same time it is not unusual for the outgoing tenant to 'forget' to hand over a complete management file (if anything at all). If the Landlord is aware of asbestos issues in the building, they are obliged to share the information with you and your contractors.

It is not unusual for tenants to be responsible for the survey as well as the management documents, but be prepared to hand a copy to the Landlord, and to be asked to ensure their copy is kept up to date.

I deal daily not only with Landlord records, but also ensuring that 120 tenants are up to speed. I am aware that it is a pain to tenants to bear this cost, but is it often teh only practical way to ensure they pay attention to teh danger lurking in the fabric of the building.

Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Everyone - thanks for the responses. As many people have commented the first thing I will advise to the person in question is a through read of the small print in the lease details followed by a discussion of what state the shop was in when it was leased and topped off with a debate of how relations are with the council and what, if anything, can be negotiated with them.

To the last respondent, Dave, your email address is really quite worrying!

Regards

Jennifer

Posted By ian mcnally
Hi Jennifer,

Adrian is quite right about employers duty to provide a safe place of work of course and I’m sure no self respecting safety advisors would want to argue with that. But….

Personally I find the duties set out under the latest asbestos regs quite frustrating, quite honestly its not surprising that some smaller employers feel the ever growing amount of legislation is just not worth all the hassle and so give it all for a quieter life.

The organisation I work for went through the asbestos process a while ago. I remember thinking at the time it was a little nuts that just because we had entered into a repairing lease we picked up the duty to manage (which effectively means you have to assess where any asbestos is within the part of the building occupied by you and then put in place a management plan).

If there are any communal areas you may be able to track down the landlord (probably on some sunny beach somewhere and twist their arm for a contribution).

Problems really kick in where you identify asbestos which can’t be encapsulated and may have to bear the costs of removing it, adding to your woes, are that fact you may have no guarantee you will be able to renew the lease after spending oodles of money. Being a landlord doesn’t sound so bad does it!

What’s really maddening (if I understand the regs correctly) is the fact that property owners have no obligation to establish if asbestos is in any of their tenanted properties (other than communal areas). So if the tenants do a bit of DIY removing/replacing bath panels, floor tiles, ducts, perhaps redoing some areas of artex ceilings, then they may never know if they are breathing in potentially dangerous asbestos fibres.


Ah well, hope that of some use, good to have a grumble now and again.

Best of luck


Ian