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#1 Posted : 25 August 2005 05:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By derek mc
Hi,
We presently use a soltion of 15% ipa with 85% di water to wipedown our benches at the end of shift. Presently the operators need to wear solvent gloves. In this diluted state do you think this should still be required? The MSDS states gloves should be worn but this looks as though it is a straight copy from the 100% ipa MSDS. Any thoughts?
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#2 Posted : 25 August 2005 07:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Evans
Depends how much trouble you are going to with the solvent gloves and if they presenting other hazards. There is a very slight chance of skin irritation in people who are sensitive but at this dilution it is relatively harmless. Baby wipes often contain it at 1-2% for the disinfectant properties you know! In hygiene terms (if this is important in your sector) it is better the gloves continue to be worn.
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#3 Posted : 25 August 2005 08:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Derek,

Unless there were other reasons for wearing gloves I would not advocate using them whilst using a weak isopropyl alcohol solution.

Wearing gloves has the potential to introduce new problems, so consider their use carefully. Do not use them because they are there.

Regards Adrian Watson
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#4 Posted : 25 August 2005 08:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Eden
What about a good old Risk Assessment?
Elimitate if possible, PPE last resort.
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#5 Posted : 25 August 2005 09:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM
Derek

I agree that what is in the MSDS is always for the worst case but what is being cleaned from the benches? Is it a potential biological contamination? If so gloves may still be required?

You will also have to be aware that even this dilution of isopropanol may cause dermatitis in some individuals.

Michael
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#6 Posted : 25 August 2005 09:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
And so does wearing gloves... in fact this is a greater risk than the isopropyl alcohol.

Regards Adrian
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#7 Posted : 25 August 2005 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM
Depends what type of glove you wear and e.g. do you have cotton liners?

Some people will be more likely to get dermatitis from a dilution of isopropanol rather than gloves and others will be more likely to get an allergy from the gloves. Having your hands frequently in a dilution of a chemical would in my opinion (and I know it is only my opinion) be much worse.

Now if my question could be answered we could actually offer advice!
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#8 Posted : 25 August 2005 10:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Evans
Derek

As you can see everyone who has contributed to the forum is right in one degree or another. A dilute IPA solution is relatively safe and the risk is one of dermatitis. You need to evaluate if the risk posed by the gloves or the chemical is greater. As an example in my lab based days we would wipe our benches down with dilute IPA and no gloves were needed they were offered but more individuals had issues with the powdered latex, however in the Microbiology lab next door this was mandatory for reasons other than the chemical. A suitable and sufficent risk assessment based on the circumstances I'm afraid! If you send more details of the circumstances I and my colleagues might be able to give you more detailed advice.
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#9 Posted : 25 August 2005 10:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Adams MIOSH
It's not the IPA you have to worry about, what is it you are wiping up? Any contaminants will permeate through the glove material and on to the skin - unless you use a really expensive glove.
Have you thought about a tool, a washing up brush, a pair of tongs to hold the solvent soaked rag, etc. The key is to consider the task and how to separate the solvent and contaminants from the hand. PPE is the last resort for good reasons.

Best of luck

Dave
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#10 Posted : 25 August 2005 11:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM
Are the employees who will be using the isopropanol soultion required to wear these gloves in their normal day to day routine?

This goes back to the question of what is normally worked with on the bench?

e.g. Are they lab workers who clean the benches at the end of the day, and wear gloves for most other areas of their work?
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#11 Posted : 25 August 2005 12:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Michael,

Sorry to be awkward but ... the main risk from gloves is not usually caused by skin sensitisation. The usual risk from wearing impermeable gloves is that the gloves encourage sweating which cannot evaporate. This results in the skin becoming waterlogged. This may result in breakdown of the skin, thereby increasing the risk of infections and irritant induced dermatitis.

A 15% Isopropyl alcohol solution is unlikely to cause irritation unless you were using it all day, in which case the predominant effect would be caused by water logging the skin.

As stated previously, unless there is another dermal risk there is no reason to wear gloves for a daily one off task, such as cleaning the surfaces, using a mild isopropyl alcohol solution.

Regards Adrian Watson
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#12 Posted : 25 August 2005 13:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM
Adrian

I don't think you are being awkward you are putting your point and quite well.

However:

I worked in a lab for 10.5 years and during that time had to wear gloves for the majority of the time. Most of that time was with what is now known to be just about the worst glove i.e. powdered latex. When I moved into Health and Safety / Biological Safety / Radiation Safety I put in place a programme where there was a choice of gloves and powdered latex were frowned upon and very rarely used. In fact they tended only to be used when we double gloved for radiation work. The glove next to the skin would be unpowdered (I also asked employees to let me know if they had any latex allergies known or suspected and also if they were having skin irritation problems).

When we sweated, we removed the gloves washed our hands and put on another pair.

The biologicals / radioisotopes etc that we were working with meant that we could not safely clean benches unless we had a pair of gloves on. This also meant that when emptying lab waste bins and taking autoclave bags to the autoclave we had to have gloves on.

I hope you can see that I have a certain perspective that I am trying to bring to this discussion.

Cheers Michael
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#13 Posted : 25 August 2005 13:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robin B
Hi
I think you must look at the permeation times for the gloves you are using. My information is that even latex gives about 5mins protection and similar disposable nitrile about 10mins........but it also depends upon what you are cleaning. It may be that the contaminate has a shorter pereation time and you must consider the worst case. If the contaminate goes through it will 'drag' the IPA with it.

Yes there are problems from latex but I've read rep[orts that this is due to the type of accelerator used [something like Thurium] Basically the cheaper the glove the more likely that would be used

Try http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/glovesbychem.html

That may be of some help

Robin
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#14 Posted : 25 August 2005 13:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By MichaelM
We used 70% IPA on our gloves to make sure there were no contaminants on them, when working with biologicals, continually over the years,. It is a recognised method.
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#15 Posted : 25 August 2005 19:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By derek mc
Thanks Everyone.
To supply a bit more info.
The wipedown is of stainless steel benches within a semiconductor fab. There are no biological hazards, simply a clean of the benches incase of any dust particles. The operators already wear cleanroom gloves to prevent skin particles contaminating the silicon wafers, and the nitrile gloves are worn over the top of these. It only takes about 5 minutes to clean the bench.
I am presently looking at using a dampened di water wipedown, eliminating the hazard, but I was interested in your thoughts on using the dilute ipa.

Thanks Again

Derek
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