Posted By Bill Fisher Raymond Referring to your closing question - does that relate to your previously mentioned "silliness" or what MoD are processing? I often suspect that some Safety Jobsworths is behind this sliding spiral from common sense. Or is the roll of Safety Advisor been a simplistic progression for many who had safety in their job-title. Here, let me be clear that I am talking in general terms. For example at my last location we had a high number of contractors on Site. It became clear to me that many "Safety Advisors" that they brought were no more than "Fire Watchers" from the oil industry who suddenly developed a new title. It became clear that they were out of their depth and applied the law as an absolute rather than with common sense. I do seriously wonder if the position we now find ourselves in now is down to that period of "development". Regards Bill

Posted By Raymond Rapp Bill - forgive me but it's late and I am not sure what of your first line is implying. However, I would like to think I am a fair bit more than a 'jobsworth'. As for my job, it was not a hoax but for security reasons I cannot divulge any further. Clark - the notion that jobsworths or those of a similar breed are the cause of such ludicrous health and safety controls is interesting. I have a similar but slightly different view. Rather than the jobsworths fault, I believe it is those managers who have no or little knowledge of health and safety. Yet, they often have a significant imput and very often dictate the policies which people like us have carry out. Of course if the HSE/HSC and others had the 'bottle' to condemn such triviality it might also help to keep our sanity. Ray

Posted By AlB I have come accross a number of risk assessments on MDF that's been a page long. I agree that a risk assessment needs to be done, but to what depth. The following, in my opinion, should be good enough. Sawing MDF - wear a dust mask as fine particles may be inhaled. The end.

Posted By Adam Jackson Raymond, you speak much truth wise one! Have been asked for CoSHH assessments for cardboard boxes in the past, along with innumerable companies who insist on CoSHH assessing things like tippex (yes, its got a hazard calassification, but in terms of 'significant' risk?).

Posted By Andy Petrie I know what you mean, I am constantly getting hassled for risk assessments for absolutely everything. In most cases they are not warranted however people feel they need to have them to cover there backs. I have actually been asked to do a risk assessment for a toilet door that was perfectly fine but non-compliant with LU standards.

Posted By Al Beevers I've just been given an 87 page 'risk assessment' for installing an air conditioning unit. Every single page is a generic assessment, and there is no mention of the most significant hazard, which is manually moving the unit into place. It was produced by a contractor employing 200 or so people. Compare that with one written specifically for the job, by a three man firm. Two pages, and it deals with getting the unit in place. Have got to agree it's gone a bit insane, but is it down to H&S professionals not getting the correct message across? I know many managers who think they've got to cover everything (see the risks from mouldy food!). Should we be educating managers and employees more about what is a SIGNIFICAN hazard, rather than all the POSSIBLE hazrds? Al.

Posted By Cr8r I know what you mean Raymond, but does it matter?! I've found that even with trained people, some worry about how to distinguish between a significant and insignificant risk, so I'd rather see them put it all down if they're not sure. As for contractors - I quite agree with the 80 pages of generic and unrelated risk assessments! How about when you ask them to make it specific, you're met with the following: 1. A puzzled look. 2. Some silence. 3. "You asked for a risk assessment so here it is." 4. "Nobody's ever complained before."

Posted By Lorraine Shuker When I asked a contracotr for a risk assessment this week on replacing a glass roof they actually laughed down the phone at me. Honestly! Actually LAUGHED!! *shakes head in despair*

Posted By jackw. Me personaaly. all went wrong when I allowed my self to be "redeployed" into a H&S officers post at an LA. Cheers.

Posted By Jenny Collis Hi Good news - at least they asked! But I am puzzled - how they access contaminated water and mouldy food!

Posted By J Knight Good thread, and I quite agree that much of this is a case of 'a little knowledge'. In my first safety job I remember visiting one site that had five fire extinguishers on each floor. What's wrong with that, you may ask? This was a three bedroom suburban semi, operated as a care home for three people with moderate learning difficulties and no discernible tendencies to arson. The extinguishers had been bought by somebody who had been asked to do H&S because she was 'keen', a very dubious reason to choose somebody, if you ask me, 'competent' would have been better. Another part of the jigsaw is risk perception. I sometimes start training sessions by asking people to list the hazards in their line of work, and I just trained a number of Charity Retail Business (Area) Managers. I asked them for their lists, after they'd nattered for a bit, and none of them mentioned the one thing that's most likely to kill one of them before retirement. Oh, they had fire, they had electricity, they had slips trips and falls, but did any of them mention driving? Of course not, can't be a risk, I've been doing it since I was 17 and I'm not dead yet, in fact I can do it with my eyes shut, or while I'm making a phone call, or reading the map; now Tippex, lethal in the wrong hands that stuff, but don't you tell me I can't drive. My point? If people can't identify the most dangerous thing they will ever do at work, how can we expect them to differentiate significant from trivial? Without substantial training we can't; thinking about risk properly doesn't come naturally, and while RAs are done by people who haven't been trained to think about risk we will get ludicrous assessments and all the stuff we have on this thread, John