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Posted By Tyler
What are your thoughts on this type of wording in the disciplinary policy?
Shouldn't it be "any breach of health and safety rule may be subject to disciplinary action" (or words to that effect)?
My point is, the question of what constitutes "Flagrant" or "Serious"?
If the wording was "any breach in health and safety...." etc then the management could look at every case on its individual merits and act accordingly.
Basically, shouldn't health and safety rules be made as important all other company rules (if not more important because some health and safety rules are statutory)?
What do you think and what does your policy state?
Tyler
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Posted By Lumpy
If the "disregard" is serious then it should be dealt with as gross missconduct. The point being the seriousness of the breach. For example, someone ignoring the smoking policy and lighting up outside the office, may need a simple warming, however someone lighting up in a flamables store may result in a charge of gross misconduct.
So my understanding is that any breach could result in sumary dismissal ... it just depends on the magitude of the failing.
Lumpy
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Posted By David P. Johnson
The line for 'flagrant' or 'serious' isn't really black and white.
It all comes down to weighting up frankly how big of a mess up they have made, and how damaging it has been.
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Posted By Ian Waldram
I'm not clear where your phrase comes from. I agree H&S 'rules' should be on a par with others, therefore I suggest that the disciplinary definitions of unacceptable behaviour include something like: "wilful behaviour which puts at serious risk their own, or someone else's, health or safety". The difficulty with talking about 'rules' is that good practices may not all be written down. Obviously, evidence that the person had disregarded a written procedure, or training standard, would be important when judging whether the actual misconduct was, or was not, gross.
In gaining acceptance of the definition, it may help you to have an outline "Just but Fair" process, which ensures the reasons for the behaviour are openly investigated, so that ignorance, thoughtlessness, etc. don't result in instant dismissal, whereas deliberate acts may do.
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Posted By gham
Instant dismissal, i don't like that phrase, employers use the working in policies and then use it in practise and leave themselves wide open to ET's but usually get away with it cause employees are unaware of their rights.
You ask should is read 'any'. Do you have a company vehicle and are you ever late in leaving for work or an appointment, do you have a driving policy, and do you stick to it e.g speed limits. Some breaches of health and safety rules may not give rise to serious injury or iminent danger. How comprehensive are your safey rules.
Of course health and safety is important as are employment rights. You can use words like gross misconduct and instant dismissal but in practise you have to concider proximity in an investigation.... If you have to investigate how can you instantly dismiss remeber you at the very least need a witness and no likley explanation or mitigating circumstances. if you need to satisfy the requirements for instant dismissal can you comfortably use the word 'Any', realistically it would be difficult to enforce.
'Serious' may be more appropriate, otherwise you will be busy
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Posted By Tyler
Just for the record.
I started this discussion to look at the wording in the policy regarding the use of disciplinary action ie verbal warnings , written warnings and the accumulation of actions. At no point did I suggest the use of instant dismissal.
The use of the wording "any breach of comapany / health and safety rules MAY result in disciplionary action" means that the management team with guidance from the health and safety manager will decide which action is approppriate for the incident / breach. If disciplinary action is not appropriate and a briefing should be carried then that is what will happen. If the person then continually breaches the rule then disciplinary action may need to be undertaken.
Where people were not aware of the rule the investigation will expose that management failing and actions put in place to correct it (this may be refresher training, increased signage etc), it is very unlikley that disciplinary action would be taken in this instance.
I hope this clears things up a little.
There is no place for a draconian and autorcratic system but there must be the final sanction of such action in serious breaches or persistant failure to co-operate. The wording (ANY and MAY) would serve to indiacte that ALL rules are important and it is up to the Management team to decide on a consistant basis the consequences of each case on its own merit and circumstances rather than being held to such a flimsy definition as "Flagrant".
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Posted By steven bentham
Would you be applying the same disciplinary rules to managers who flagrantly disregard health & safety? or managers who by their consent, connivance or neglect cause safety problems?
I think before you get to the disciplinary measures for those who 'flagrantly disregard' you need a very good investigation system to look at why things are not working.
You almost need some warning to improve or chance to change first!
It is easier on easy breaches i.e. no hard hat in an area designated as a hard hat area. No hat = no work. But what about system of work failures!!
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Posted By Anthony Slinger
Where is MarkSMark when you need him?
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Posted By gham
I am scalded, thoroughly
I don't think it matters how it is worded as interpretations differ depending on the circumstances and those who are involved
does removing the word 'any' lessen the impact or change the meaning
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