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#1 Posted : 16 September 2005 10:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Are employers with fewer than five employees exempt from the requirement for a written statement of their general policy under as required under section 3?
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#2 Posted : 16 September 2005 10:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett Hi Stephen. I think that I know what your asking but it would help considerably if you could re-write your question. Frank Hallett
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#3 Posted : 16 September 2005 10:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Frank, I hope this clarifies my question. I run a firm that employs three people. Am I required to prepare and as often as may be appropriate revise a written statement of his general policy with respect to the health and safety at work of my employees? Or am I exempt from doing this in the same way that I am exempt from having to have written records of risk assessments (which I do carry out)? If I am exempt where will I find rhe regulation or clause that exempts me? All help appreciated.
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#4 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Oliver Section 2 (3) of HASWA states that the duty to prepare a general policy does not apply to any emplyer who employs less than 5 people, However, I would bear in mind: Reg 3 of the management regs requires employers and self-employed people to to carry out suitable and sufficient risk assessments, of which control measures may include reference to safety policies and procedures thatcomplement the task in hand. Although the requirement for recording only applies to employers of 5 or more persons you need to take into account the working environment and task in hand, and of course employers duty under section 2 to provide a safe place of work,without risks to health.
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#5 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Paul, I cannot see the exemption in section 3. The copy of the act in front of me reads: (3) Except in such cases as may be prescribed, it shall be the duty of every employer to prepare and as often as may be appropriate revise a written statement of his general policy with respect to the health and safety at work of his employees and the organisation and arrangements for the time being in force for carrying out that policy, and to bring the statement and any revision of it to the notice of all his employees. It may be prescribed under exemptions but I cannot find it?
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#6 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By JJF Hello Stephen. To answer your question in a direct manner, you are not required by law to have a written H&S Policy if you only employ 3 people. The requirement to have a written policy applies to employers who have 5 or more people. Whether or not it is desirable to have a written H&S Policy for such a small company is however debatable. If you do have it in a written form you will find it easier to demonstrate your companies commitment to H&S should you need to for whatever reason. I hope that helps.
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#7 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Goddard stephen it would be best practice anyway to do a policy, in regards to the public and young people who may be working on your premises and also contractors. this would then cover you under section 2 subsection 3 of the 74 act. regards Ian
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#8 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Thanks to all those who have answered the thread so far. I still havn't found the bit of legislation that exempts me from the requirement to have a written policy. If all else fails I'll go and ask the HSE helpline. I'll post their reply.
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#9 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett Thanks for the response & clarification Stephen, it is most helpful and will assist with a properly focussed answer. As previously identified you are exempted from the specific legal requirement to produce a written [in any format] H&S Policy by the HSWA. You have obviously taken H&S reasonably seriously as you already produce RA's; so you're actually a long way down that management control road already. However, you will need to consider the following against your legal right to not produce or maintain a formal H&S Policy document. First, if you have a client who insists that you must produce and provide a written H&S Policy in order to get their work, that is their right in Civil Law and also in H&S as it will generally be a principle means by which they demonstrate that they are fulfilling their HSWA S3 duties and also their MHSW duties in Regs 5 & 12. Second, if your business is involved in an event that subsequently involves a Civil case for damages, how will you prove to the Court that you have a defensible means of providing consistant information to a clearly defined standard that will minimise the possibility of you being on the receiving end of a judgement? Third, but certainly no less important. If you are involved in any form of enforcement activity, how will you prove to the standard required [99%] that you have provided consistant information to a clearly defined standard that will minimise the possibility of you being on the receiving end of an enforcement penalty Hope this deals with your problem. Frank Hallett
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#10 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett OK Stephen What you are looking at is the original and unamended version of the HSWA. S2[3] was amended by the Employers’ Health and Safety Policy Statements (Exception) Regulations 1975, SI 1975/1584 which removed the strict requirement for all and exempted undertakings of less than 5 employees. Frank Hallett
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#11 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Don't want to be smug but I now know the answer to where I can find the exemption. So far no one has got anywhere near to putting their finger on it. First one to provide the correct answer proves their worth as a H&S guru. Hope someone's up to it.
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#12 Posted : 16 September 2005 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Frank Oh great H&S Guru you can obviously type faster than me. Some how I new You'd get the answer. Well done!
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#13 Posted : 16 September 2005 12:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett I didn't know that it was a competition or I would've considered letting someone else get the plaudits. But thanks for the compliment anyway - it's all down to accessible references! You don't really think that I carry that sort of stuff in my head surely? Frank Hallett
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#14 Posted : 16 September 2005 12:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods I thought you'd get it because you seem to be able to access relevant info quickly. I would agree that anyone carrying this sort of info in their head realy does need to get out more.
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#15 Posted : 16 September 2005 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By ITK Exceptions to this requirement Those employers carrying on an undertaking in which, for the time being, having fewer than five persons are being employed, are excepted from the provisions of Sec 2(3). [Employers Health and Safety Policy Statements (Exception) Regulations 1975 (SI 1975 ~ 1584)]. Regard is to be given only to employees actually present on the premises, i.e. employees for the time being (not including relief staff (Osborne v Bill Taylor of Huyton 119821 IRLR 17)).
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#16 Posted : 16 September 2005 16:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul L Williams Stephen, I would also suggest that you take a look at the HSE's web page for small businesses. The link is www.hse.gov.uk/smallbusinesses You will find a free guidance document, which includes a policy statement and risk assessment forms. Even though you don't have to have a written policy, it is a worthwhile exercise so that your employees understand that you take their health safety and welfare very seriously. Your policy can also outline the standards that you wish you set, for example the need to wear PPE, smoking, training etc. Don't forget if one of your employees had an accident then it would be very difficult to defend if you didn't have a policy, risk assessments, safe systems of work and training records. Thanks Paul
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#17 Posted : 16 September 2005 17:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Anthony Slinger I thought the exemption for employers having to record health and safety arrangements (policy, POPIMAR etc) was explicit in the MHSWR Reg 5(2).
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#18 Posted : 16 September 2005 19:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney Frank I learnt something today; and I thank you. I always work on the basis that if I gain knowledge of just one thing, no matter how small and innocuous, it will have been worth getting out of bed! Respect!! Charley
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#19 Posted : 16 September 2005 20:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett Applause, applause!! I can stand any amount of it; thank you fans. Just to make sure though; Charley - just what was it you learnt today? All I did was answer the question quicker than others. Frank Hallett
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#20 Posted : 17 September 2005 16:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney Frank Can't possibly tell you what I learnt, mind you I think I need to get out a bit more and socialise with non H&S peoples> So, it's still respect! Charley Farley-Trelawney-Farnsworth-Curruthers-Posslethwaite.
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#21 Posted : 17 September 2005 17:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By PaulA Frank.... Sorry to jump on the thread.. but I also commend you on the standard of your replies to certain individuals.. It is my ugly face on the 'How did i get here?' pic in SHP.. and you were certainly one of the individuals that I reffered to when saying how much much I am inspired by certain individuals answers on the forum page. Are you retired and just love to sit in your Chesterfield and answer individuals questions? Keep up great work... Kind regards PaulA (Iraq!)
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#22 Posted : 17 September 2005 18:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charley Farley-Trelawney Frank You just have to be blushing! We should rename this thread Frank's emporium for the definitive answer. Have a good weekend ol boy, I know, not so much of the old. Charles
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#23 Posted : 17 September 2005 20:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson Stephen There is no requirement to have a written policy where you employ less than 5 employees for the time being. i.e. if you have eight employees at one premises, but only 4 work at any one time you do not need a written policy. The exemption is not in the act; it is in the health and safety (exemptions) Regulations 1977. The title may not be quite right. However, get a copy of HSE Booklet 'an introduction to health and safety' from the HSE web site http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg259.pdf. This contains a template policy which needs the names to be written in it. It'll save you grief with an enforcement officer. Regards Adrian Watson
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#24 Posted : 17 September 2005 20:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson Stephen, Frank's answer's better. By the way an employer only needs to record the significant findings of their risk assessment where they employ five or more employees. But as always, it's best to record them because most inspectors assume you have to have them in writting when you employ 5 or more persons. Regards Adrian
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#25 Posted : 18 September 2005 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett OK everyone - I am now suitably embarrassed - and this is not an easy thing to achieve, trust me. In response to what appears to be a growing fan club [boy - you lot really do need to get out more!] and to put it into perspective, I can say that I am not retired nor retiring [that's something else that has never been considered one of my foremost attributes] and I am an independant consultant [but that's not why I provide material to this Forum]. My principal reasons for my Forum involvement are to put something back into the H&S movement in the most effective way that I can and to generally try to help people to gain a better understanding of pragmatic application of H, S & F management principles. I make no apologies if that comes across as arrogant to some; just 'cos that may be how it's perceived, that's not how it's intended. Frank Hallett
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#26 Posted : 18 September 2005 11:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Woods Frank, It's Sunday time to get out among the real people. Yes I know I'm posting this on sunday but only because I ticked the email me when someone replies box and I went to read my emails to see if I'd won the lottery (I do it on line dead easy you know). No I didn't win and I know I'm not likely to.
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