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Posted By Carrie Ellerby
Situation -
Paint mixing room (paints include solvents and isocyanates), LEV is installed but transport velocities are low so staff using RPE in meantime, maximum time spent mixing paints is 10 minutes.
We are having a dispute at the moment as to whether to fit hooded LEV in addition to existing (obviously to be repaired also) around where the workers are mixing the paint to directly remove any fumes.
The problem is we have been told by one advisor that we must do this and by another that this is not necessary.
I need a bit of advice on where to go to find absolute requirements but can't find anything on the net, anyone know about paints and LEV?
Thanks in advance,
Carrie
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Posted By Mark Bywater Hi Carrie, As I believe you are in the Yorkshire area (?) I would highly recommend a company called Alpha Extraction in Ossett, West Yorkshire. Malcolm Smart is the contact. Telephone 07867 502118 or email: mal@alphaextraction.comThey are a reputable firm and very professional. I have always found Mal very helpful and technically spot on. Regards, Mark PS - before anyone asks, I am not related in any way to this company
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Carrie
If the paints contain volatile isocyanates, you must use engineering controls to try to minimise exposure. If you are mixing paint, total enclosure may not be practicable but LEV will be. By the by, you should use positive pressure RPE if there is a risk of exposure to isocyanates. If you want to discuss your situation further, call me on 01905 353500.
Paul Leadbetter LFOH
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Posted By Amy Jackson
Hi Carrie
I suggest that you have a chat with the installers and designers to determine the initial desgin flow rate and establish why the levels are currently so low. Any additional hoods should be designed into the existing system, rather than just being 'stuck on', to ensure the LEV works afficeintly.
If you would like any further info, please call me on 0116 2348000.
Cheers
Amy
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Posted By Rob Malcolm
Carrie,
Amy is closest so far.
Let’s cut to the chase. Inform your company Directors that they must contact your Insurers about receiving an initial appraisal for LEV. It sounds to me that you've never had one. The appraisal will identify what’s required for improvements in your existing system. No need to invite independent contractors into the picture. £ Signs all over the place.
The Insurers will highlight the legal requirement for maintenance & repair of the existing system. They will also advise you on suitable methods for improvements. Like Amy said, any additional hoods should be designed into the existing system, rather than just being 'stuck on', to ensure the LEV works afficeintly. Any alteration to the existing system would require inspection by the insurers so that they can be satisfied that compliance with the certificate is still being met.
Remember PPE is the last line of defense, if you’re using PPE all the time you will seriously need to consider the introduction of an occupational health specialist to monitor your staffs exposure levels WOW! Costly! Having said that you should do anyway!
Don’t have sleepless nights over it just contact the insurers about your LEV certification. It’s in their interest to get it right for you as they insure the risk.
Rob
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Posted By Smurfer
Why, why, why is it ALWAYS the insurers who get the call re. LEV. They've created themselves a nice little monopoly on LEV testing. There ARE others who you can call in - it doesn't HAVE to be the insurers.
By the way, why is there instantly a mention of isocyanates? Wasn't mentioned originally - could be anything. Of those of you with experience in measuring exposure to isocyanates have you ever actually detected any?
Oh and I'm not poo-pooing the dangers of paints - I've just done some work for a company which I was horrified to find was still using lead chromate based paints!!
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Posted By Smurfer
Oops!! Just re-read the orignial post. Take back what I said about isocyanates!! It's late
;-)
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Posted By Rob Malcolm
Why, why, why is it ALWAYS the insurers who get the call.......because they dish out the bill if they get it wrong!
You have to pay them for the privilege of issuing you a certificate so why not toss it back at them if they get it wrong.
My moneys on the insurers getting it right 99% of the time. That’s why they stay in business & organizations like the one you just mentioned using lead chromate based paints are still exposing people to hazardous substances unnecessarily.
Rob
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Posted By Phillip
It sounds like it is not only COSHH issues but you need to address your DSEAR/ATEX issues also.
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Posted By Kinnikin Further to the other responses. If you are in the North West a small but very competent LEV inspection Engineering company is A Kemp Ltd. ALan can be contacted on 0161 351 0111 Website: www.dustcontrolengineers.co.ukWe use the company on our sites and he is very good, not too expensive but above all he is very knowledgeable. If the LEV System requires modification then they are able to design and install this in addition to the normal testing and inspection services. I hope this helps
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
I also use A Kemp, He has fitted a whole new system of LEV`s for us and done an excellent job.
PT
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Posted By Angela Hayden
Sorry to hi-jack this post Carrie, but it is on the same subject.
Does anyone out there know of any companies that carry out atmospheric monitoring, we are based in Nottingham.
We have carried out our CoSHH assessments and one of the products if used in small amounts (which they are) only requires general ventilation. However, we had a visit from an inspector who was not convinced and thinks we need LEV. Therefore, I know this is best practice anyway, we need to carry out some monitoring to either convince her we don't or to convince my bosses we do.
Look foward to your guidance.
Angela.
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Posted By JTDorset
Yes, try air monitoing first! THis can be done very low cost. Try A1 Safetech on 01582 747502, this can be done at very low cost indeed!
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Posted By Carrie Ellerby
Thanks all,
I'll speak to managers to see if we can get insurers in and I'm also trying to find out the original velocity settings from either the manufacturers or the people who fitted the equipment in to sort out the low velocities. Was just wondering if anyone had come across this and installed additional hooded LEV.
Phillip,
the thread was purely asking about LEV, how do you come to the conclusion that we also have DSEAR issues? Does extraction have something to do with this?
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Posted By Rob Malcolm
Carrie,
I was asking myself the same question about DSEAR issues?
Good luck anyway.
I worked in the aerospace industry for 11 years (low level) manufacturing transformers etc. MOD (Trident missiles,). We basically produced wound components, electro-mechanical units and electronic test equipment for aerospace, defense & industrial applications.
We did a lot of soldering activities & used lots of smelly chemicals & the likes. We had LEV systems falling over each other.
Happy to guide you in the right direction with regards to information on extraction, COSHH etc!
Regards
Rob
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Carrie,
I have watched this thread with some interest!
The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have the low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and a high of turbulant emissions from cleaning paint guns, if this is done in the area. If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth you only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain spills. If you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you also need a ventilated booth for this task. Isocyanates are not a problem from MIXING unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun.
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Carrie,
I have watched this thread with some interest!
The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good pratice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates are not a problem from MIXING unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. Spray guns used for spraying isocyanates should not be cleaned inside the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Carrie,
I have watched this thread with some interest!
The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good practice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates are not a problem from MIXING unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. Spray guns used for spraying isocyanates should not be cleaned inside the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Carrie, I have watched this thread with some interest!
The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good practice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates release is not a problem during MIXING, unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. This should not be done in the mixing room. Isocyanate ciontaing spray guns Spray guns should not be cleaned or tested inside the general area of the mixing room or in an open fronted booth in the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Carrie,
I was asking myself the same question about DSEAR issues?
Good luck anyway.
I worked in the aerospace industry for 11 years (low level) manufacturing transformers etc. MOD (Trident missiles,). We basically produced wound components, electro-mechanical units and electronic test equipment for aerospace, defense & industrial applications.
We did a lot of soldering activities & used lots of smelly chemicals & the likes. We had LEV systems falling over each other.
Happy to guide you in the right direction with regards to information on extraction, COSHH etc!
Regards
Rob
[hide] [delete] Re: Any LEV experts about?
Posted by Adrian Watson on Saturday, 08 October 2005 at 10:00
Dear Carrie, I have watched this thread with some interest! The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good practice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates release is not a problem during MIXING, unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. This should not be done in the mixing room. Isocyanate containing spray guns Spray guns should not be cleaned or tested inside the general area of the mixing room or in an open fronted booth in the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Carrie,
I was asking myself the same question about DSEAR issues?
Good luck anyway.
I worked in the aerospace industry for 11 years (low level) manufacturing transformers etc. MOD (Trident missiles,). We basically produced wound components, electro-mechanical units and electronic test equipment for aerospace, defense & industrial applications.
We did a lot of soldering activities & used lots of smelly chemicals & the likes. We had LEV systems falling over each other.
Happy to guide you in the right direction with regards to information on extraction, COSHH etc!
Regards
Rob
[hide] [delete] Re: Any LEV experts about?
Posted by Adrian Watson on Saturday, 08 October 2005 at 10:00
Dear Carrie, I have watched this thread with some interest! The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them.
You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good practice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates release is not a problem during MIXING, unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. This should not be done in the mixing room. Isocyanate containing spray guns Spray guns should not be cleaned or tested inside the general area of the mixing room or in an open fronted booth in the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear Carrie,
I have watched this thread with some interest! The first thing in designing or evaluating LEV is to identify the sources of pollution and then evaluate them. You say you are have a paint mixing room. I presume from that you have a seperate painting area? If so, it should be a properly ventilated negative pressure booth that is classified as a Zone 0 explosive area, with airlines for the sprayer as he is using Isocyanate containing paints.
In a mixing room, you generally have a low rate of solvent emissions from paint mixing and from open sources such as rags, open containers and waste bins. There also may be some short-duration high-intensity emissions whilst cleaning or testing paint guns if this is done in the mixing area. For this reason testing and cleaning should be done inside the paint spray booth if possible. However, if you are using or cleaning the spray gun inside the mixing area you will also need a ventilated booth for this task.
If the paint guns are cleaned in the paint spray booth, you will only need general ventilation to prevent the accummulation of explosive atmospheres and a metal grounded work bench to contain solvent spills.
Solvents should be contained in small marked containers. All solvents should be in flame proof cabinets. Good practice is that no more than 1 days supply should be in the mixing room at any one time. Spills should be immediately cleaned up and wastes including rags should be immediately placed in lidded metal containers. Lids should be on containers at all times.
Isocyanates release is not a problem during MIXING, unless you are testing the viscosity of the paint using a spray gun. This should not be done in the mixing room. Isocyanate containing spray guns Spray guns should not be cleaned or tested inside the general area of the mixing room or in an open fronted booth in the mixing room.
Whoever designs your LEV system must be competent to evaluate sources and rates of release of pollutants on this. If any body cares to email me direct I'll forward HSE's guidance on selecting competent persons for evaluating LEV systems. (PS this info is not on their web site).
Regards Adrian Watson
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Posted By Adrian Watson
The mixing Room should be a Zone 2 DSEAR Zone as explosive atmospheres may occassionally occur.
Regards Adrian
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Posted By Rob Malcolm
Good luck anyway.
I worked in the aerospace industry for 11 years (low level) manufacturing transformers etc. MOD (Trident missiles). We basically produced wound components, electro-mechanical units and electronic test equipment for aerospace, defense & industrial applications.
We did a lot of soldering activities & used lots of smelly chemicals & the likes. We had LEV systems falling over each other.
Happy to guide you in the right direction with regards to information on extraction, COSHH etc!
Regards
Rob
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